What to do with people who don't have insurance?

[gravitas]

There was a recent house fire in Calgary thats garnered a lot of media attention and subsequent charity.

The house, which was being rented by a family of 7, was by all accounts a total write off with damages totalling $400k. Here's the thing.....the fire was caused by careless disposal of cigarettes and they didn't have tenant insurance.

Ya its the shits their house and belongings burnt to the ground but if they can afford smokes* then surely they should be able to afford insurance**.

*In the articles covering the story its indicated that multiple people in the house smoked, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say it was only two. I think smokes are running $10.00/pack and assuming that the two each smoke an average of 3/4 pack a day that works out to $450/month or $5400/year.

**Tenant insurance for $250,000 content (which given the damages quote I believe is more then adequate), no claims, continuous coverage for >5 years ranges between $900 to $1500 per year.


Over the years there have been some tight financial times but I've always been a responsible adult and whether renting or owned I had insurance. Now without sounding heartless prick but for fuck sakes why should these people get bailed out?

 

[LonelyGhost]

they shouldn't.

i have had insurance since i lived in some shitty bachelor
basement suite up to today ... not one stinking day without
it, ever, not once, not for any reason.

its not that i have anything worth insuring, but the insurance
also covers all kinds of liability from damage to other people's
property (when renting) to someone twisting an ankle on my
steps (or worse).

anyone who says that they cannot afford basic insurance
should be deported ... anyone that stupid cannot be
contributing anything to the betterment of society.

 

[Guardian Angel]

Education and perhaps Goverment Tax breaks

they shouldn't.

i have had insurance since i lived in some shitty bachelor
basement suite up to today ... not one stinking day without
it, ever, not once, not for any reason.

its not that i have anything worth insuring, but the insurance
also covers all kinds of liability from damage to other people's
property (when renting) to someone twisting an ankle on my
steps (or worse).

anyone who says that they cannot afford basic insurance
should be deported ... anyone that stupid cannot be
contributing anything to the betterment of society.

If more of our young were better educated to the Insurance coverages available it might be a good start.
Having said that, the government has a number of indirect costs associated with fire, death etc where insurance would or may have covered many of those expenses.

Perhaps the Goverernment should allow Insurance Premiuims of all sorts to become Tax write-offs. It would likely save them in the long run. nd incent people to get basic coverages at least.

That leads me off on another tangent of a Goverment list of beneifts we could get tax concessions for:

Like:

Fitness Club Memberships
Health Store Purchases for variety of ailments
Home fitness equipment

And I am sure there are many other good ideas from our board members. But that is another thread.

G.A.

 

[LonelyGhost]

Perhaps the Goverernment should allow Insurance Premiuims of all sorts to become Tax write-offs. It would likely save them in the long run. nd incent people to get basic coverages at least.

G.A.

tax deductions only work for people with money ... most of the people
who cannot putatively afford insurance are not going to benefit
from another useless government program to make businesses more
money!

the government could (but it would be a hugh bureaucracy) provide
insurance to welfare, uic, pensioners etc through a deduction but
it would just mean hiring another 10,000 idiots from quebec for another
federal department.

we should just ship these idiots to mexico in exchange for people
willing to work for a living ...

 

[Guardian Angel]

Good thoughts on the subject.

tax deductions only work for people with money ... most of the people
who cannot putatively afford insurance are not going to benefit
from another useless government program to make businesses more
money!

the government could (but it would be a hugh bureaucracy) provide
insurance to welfare, uic, pensioners etc through a deduction but
it would just mean hiring another 10,000 idiots from quebec for another
federal department.

we should just ship these idiots to mexico in exchange for people
willing to work for a living ...

All good comments and more food for thought.

G.A.

 

[gravitas]

tax deductions only work for people with money

To an extent yes. However, the regressive tax system we currently have which in effect penalizes people who are successful is bullshit. Flat tax is the way to go! A one page tax return if you earn $20,000/a or $200,000/a.

it would just mean hiring another 10,000 idiots from quebec

I here there will soon be a ton of unemployed CAFC fuckers from Miramichi looking for work.

we should just ship these idiots to mexico in exchange for people
willing to work for a living ...

I don't think this family was unwilling to work. Christ, these days you couldn't swing a dead cat in Calgary without it getting a job offer. The problem is like many alleged adults these people don't have their priorities straight. Despite the fact that they should have had insurance I'd likely have donated something (cash, bedding, kitchen stuff) to help them out had the fire not been caused by smoking. Honestly, how can you expect sympathy when you're inhaling away a ton of cash in lieu of paying for necessities like insurance or food? Maybe I should just take my paycheck and other income and fuck 3 SP's a day....go to the foodbank for dinner, when the SUV gets repo'd I'll steal vehicle, screw insurance, property tax, etc.....the rest of the herd will help me out.

 

[dirk_dog]

I dont feel any sympathy for them. Insurance isnt that expensive. I read the articles on this story and did a search for the neighbourhood; it looks like its a pretty nice area of Calgary. If you cant afford insurance than maybe you should rent a cheaper house and put that extra money you save towards insurance.

I also saw the mother from the family on the TV news. She was crying and saying the family was barely scraping by and couldnt afford insurance BUT they were going to get it in January. What was going to change in January? Were they expecting a raise at their job? Was the kid gonna get a part time job? Were they gonna quit smoking?

Man, insurance just isnt that expensive. You should even buy a bit of it if thats all you can afford; if you cant insure everything, a little insurance is still better than none.

 

[dirk_dog]

Heres another question...

Im assuming the owner/landlord of the home has insurance on the house. His insurance company will pay for the house. Can or will this insurance company go after the family to recoup their losses?

 

[gravitas]

it looks like its a pretty nice area of Calgary

Its a decent enough area that I'd consider right in the middle of middle class. House is (or was) 1,805 sq feet, split level so likely a generic run of the mill suburba dwelling.

If you cant afford insurance than maybe you should rent a cheaper house and put that extra money you save towards insurance

Exactly and another example of the "I'm entitled to my entitlements" attitude that is ruining the western world.

the family was barely scraping by and couldnt afford insurance BUT they were going to get it in January. What was going to change in January? Were they expecting a raise at their job? Was the kid gonna get a part time job? Were they gonna quit smoking?

Yup...and your honor I'll never drive drunk again.....hunny I promise I'll never hit you again.....ok boss I'll never be late for work again

ya.....ok, they'd have insurance in January so lets bail them out now

Man, insurance just isnt that expensive. You should even buy a bit of it if thats all you can afford; if you cant insure everything, a little insurance is still better than none.

OK, provide them with $100k worth of content insurance. That works out to around $400/a or 40 packs of smokes. Yup, still zero sympathy.

Im assuming the owner/landlord of the home has insurance on the house. His insurance company will pay for the house. Can or will this insurance company go after the family to recoup their losses?

I don't know how that would work. On my rental properties I'm insured for property damage (all the usual perils) and an additional rider covering damage as a result of illegal activity (grow ops, etc.). When I was a renter I only had content and liability insurance. Will be interesting to see how things play out for the owner.

 

[Bartdude]

Let's just say that it's a bit ironic people were outraged at the police seizing the cars of guys caught trolling for SP's on the streets, but are quite willing to turn a cold heart to a family who's lost everything just because they didnn't have insurance. People make mistakes. Have some compassion for fuck's sake.

You guys seem to think it's okay to piss on these people when they're already down. Hundreds of others, who have been helping the family out, would seem to disagree.

 

[gravitas]

Let's just say that it's a bit ironic people were outraged at the police seizing the cars of guys caught trolling for SP's on the streets, but are quite willing to turn a cold heart to a family who's lost everything just because they didnn't have insurance.

For the record I'm 100% supportive of vehicles being seized if cruising for sex in residential neighborhoods. I could care less if you live in the British Properties, the Hamptons or the DTES or Forest Lawn, having hookers/johns trolling in front of your house or by your kids school/playground is unacceptable.

People make mistakes.

The still lit cigarette is a mistake, the lack of insurance on the other hand is a deliberate act. Fuck em!

Have some compassion for fuck's sake.

I have compassion coming out my ass....I ooze compassion.....I'm caucasian ghandi for fuck sakes......but I have a VERY hard time being charitable for someone who puts more priority on cigarettes then an essential like home insurance.

You guys seem to think it's okay to piss on these people when they're already down

Who's pissing on them? I'm not suggesting anything punitive happen to them just that they take responsibility for their own actions.

Hundreds of others, who have been helping the family out, would seem to disagree.

And god knows the mob is always right.

 

[souljacker]

ps: All my rental agreements with my tenants have a clause stating that they MUST have tenant's insurance or they will be evicted and they must provide me with a copy of the policy and that the policy must state that the insurance company must inform me if the policy is discontinued.

Every landlord should do this. Back when I was renting, I didn't have tenant's insurance. Nothing bad happened because of my lack of insurance, but still, looking back on it, I can't believe how stupid I was. Once I bought my own place, it was like all of a sudden a light went on in my head, and I suddenly realized that insurance is cheap, and smart to get.

Sure, the chances are that over the long run you'll pay more in insurance than you'll ever get back in claims, but if you suffer a severe loss and you don't have insurance to cover it, then your lack of foresight means that you're screwed. I guess if you're disciplined enough to take the money that you would have spent on insurance premiums and save it for an emergency, in the long run you should come out ahead financially. Unless your savings haven't built up enough by the time an emergency comes along... Besides, I've never known anyone who was disciplined enough with their money to truly make that work.

 

[souljacker]

Who's pissing on them? I'm not suggesting anything punitive happen to them just that they take responsibility for their own actions.

Come on Grav, you should know by now that in today's society there's no such thing as taking responsibility for your own actions! It's always someone else's fault!

 

[Bartdude]

I have compassion coming out my ass....I ooze compassion.....I'm caucasian ghandi for fuck sakes......

The still lit cigarette is a mistake, the lack of insurance on the other hand is a deliberate act.

Fuck em!

Yep, bring on the Nobel prize

Who's pissing on them?

but I have a VERY hard time being charitable for someone who puts more priority on cigarettes then an essential like home insurance.

Thought you said you weren't pissing on them? Thought you wanted to avoid being a heartless prick? Whoops, too late....

I'm not suggesting anything punitive happen to them just that they take responsibility for their own actions.

Please show me direct, specific examples of them trying to blame someone else for what happened.

And god knows the mob is always right.

As are those self-righteous people on the sidelines mocking people for making mistakes, and shitting on those stepping up to help.

It was known immediately that they had no insurance - thus, they were immediately held out for a TV audience of over a million as being careless and basically the authors of their own misfortune. Do you think the family doesn't know they were dumb and careless? Have they been quoted somewhere blaming the landlord, the city, or something? Some people stepped forward and said "yeah, you're dumb, but you deserve some compassion."

What the hell do you care that other people are willing to overlook the family's carelessness to provide some help? Precisely what joy do you take in sitting in front of your shiny new Sony laptop, heaping scorn on these people?

I know what a legend you are on here, and that you are the source of much wisdom and useful debate. But this time, you're just being an asshole.

 

[Bartdude]

And the 100s of 1000s of people who send money to Jimmy Swaggart?

Obviously that means that everyone should send him money, right?

Umm, okay, a useless and completely irrelevant comment.

Kindly STFU, dumbass.

 

[Rod Steel]

For the record I'm 100% supportive of vehicles being seized if cruising for sex in residential neighborhoods. I could care less if you live in the British Properties, the Hamptons or the DTES or Forest Lawn, having hookers/johns trolling in front of your house or by your kids school/playground is unacceptable.



The still lit cigarette is a mistake, the lack of insurance on the other hand is a deliberate act. Fuck em!

I have compassion coming out my ass....I ooze compassion.....I'm caucasian ghandi for fuck sakes......but I have a VERY hard time being charitable for someone who puts more priority on cigarettes then an essential like home insurance.

Who's pissing on them? I'm not suggesting anything punitive happen to them just that they take responsibility for their own actions.

Yeah that!! It would seem to me insurance ought to rate higher than smokes for Christ's sakes.

 

[LonelyGhost]

are quite willing to turn a cold heart to a family who's lost everything just because they didnn't have insurance. People make mistakes. Have some compassion for fuck's sake.

You guys seem to think it's okay to piss on these people when they're already down. Hundreds of others, who have been helping the family out, would seem to disagree.

here's a question for you: would you have helped them if they had had
insurance?

 

[poonersdelight]

here's a question for you: would you have helped them if they had had
insurance?

they wouldn't need our help then would they?

 

[poonersdelight]

The trick with insurance is that if you can reasonably easily afford to cover the loss, then the insurance is a waste of money.

If you can't afford the loss, then you can't afford not to have the insurance.

Of course, on the other hand, if you have nothing to lose, then you have no reason to buy insurance.

I disagree. If someone stole my car, I could easily afford to replace it. Yet I still carry theft insurance. Why? It's worth a few hundred a year to give me peace of mind my car would be covered. Living in East Vancouver, this isn't a bad choice.

Mind you, if I live in someplace that has next to no crime, maybe theft insurance ain't such a hot idea. I'd rather spend the few hundred on an alarm or immobilizer or something of the sort. It would pay for itself in insurance premiums within the year.

 

[expedition]

These people were doubly negligent, first for not having insurance and second ( and most seriously ) for not taking care with their smokes.

As such, we and the government are not resposible for them. And so they must depend on the charity of others.

Does that mean people shouldn't give them help and feel sorry for them? No. Charity is a personal choice. Sure they were stupid and at least partly to blame for their own misfortune, but that applies to a lot of people. It certainly has applied to me at times. Maybe there are some out there that have never done anything stupid, but I'm not one of them.

You don't have to help these people out. You don't have to feel sorry for them. But you have no place telling others that they can't help them or feel sorry for them either. And if you are really confident in your decision either way, why would you even bother telling others how they should or shouldn't feel, or if they should or shouldn't help?

If you want to help someone, help.
If you don't, don't.
Your choice.
Simple.