Public Access to Lakes, Rivers, etc. Hiking, Fishing and Hunting

[nmjoff]

Is anybody else here following this story...?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...ney-lake-ranch-appeal-court-merritt-1.5938741
I just sent a donation to the Nicola Fish & Game Club as they are spending a fortune on lawyers trying to ensure British Columbians have the right to access Public Land to enjoy.
An American Billionaire from the Wallmart Clan owns the Douglas Lake ranch and has been systematically removing access to Publicly owned lakes (Your Lakes)
For their own use profit and pleasure...

I just sent a donation to support the Nicola Fish & Game club to help with their legal fee's, they shouldn't be taking on this fight the province needs to change their policies to ensure our rights to access our public recreational opportunities...

Your Thoughts ?

 

[DangerousDan]

I like the ruling. His wealth is irrelevant to the issue.

Why should the public be allowed access through private land? I wouldn't want people walking through my backyard. Private land means not yours.

 

[g eazy]

It sounds like the right ruling, but just a fuckup on the government's part. Rather unfortunate.

 

[sybian]

Yeah I have some thoughts......
Douglas lake( who I’m very fucking familiar with) is posting” No Trespass “ on all of their private land....no problem.

They are also posting “ No Trespass “ on some of their leased range lands, which is extensive.....being American, they think that if they lease the grassland, or Crown lease Rangeland, they have ownership of that Range if they pay it.

They are wrong....the lease allows them to place so many cows per acre of range to consume the grass.
I had an argument at gunpoint with a little pukester American cowboy wanna-be ,at a lake that shares our ranges.
Private property, with no easements is one thing....leased range is another.

A Canadian citizen can walk any place he pleases on crown land, just don’t damage habitat, particularly if it’s protected grassland.
The issue you might be referring to is the trophy lake within their private property, that they manage and promote as a private sport fishing lake....that’s entirely different, unless you have the balls to walk up the little creek that feeds the lake.
Watercourses cannot be blocked in Canada as access, as they historically are travel routes.
Any private property owner cannot stop someone from travelling through a watercourse, or prospecting, unless they own the mineral rights, and even then, it won’t hold up in court.
Some of the locals in Merritt , accessed that lake lying well inside Douglas Lakes private land, using the old law of “ right to roam”....which originated in Scotland, and was adopted here.
Thats pushing it a little, but they fell within the laws...the other issue was, did Douglas Lake , and the Waltons, who own Walmart block a road, which has access for firefighting through their land illegally?

 

[masterpoonhunter]

I didn't know the Scots originated the Right to Roam law. Perfect though, now all together in a Sean Connery (rest his misogynistic soul) voice, "Rrright to Rrrroam".

Not the same scope but I have a property on a nice big lake on Vancouver Island and some of the shit that goes down by locals who seem to do what they want and no 'authority wants to get involved'. The buck passing from Lake Authority to Town Council to Timber company to water rights holder to ministry of transport and of forestry is just fucking breathtaking. This bureaucrats are phenomenal, truly phenomenal at not doing their jobs. All to do with right of way and access to the lake. And a lot of that is leased land so locals on that land block others and others just do what they want on other people's leased land. So far no one has told me where the bodies are buried from the 'arguments'.

 

[MissingOne]

Yeah I have some thoughts......
Douglas lake( who I’m very fucking familiar with) is posting” No Trespass “ on all of their private land....no problem.

They are also posting “ No Trespass “ on some of their leased range lands, which is extensive.....being American, they think that if they lease the grassland, or Crown lease Rangeland, they have ownership of that Range if they pay it.

They are wrong....the lease allows them to place so many cows per acre of range to consume the grass.
I had an argument at gunpoint with a little pukester American cowboy wanna-be ,at a lake that shares our ranges.
Private property, with no easements is one thing....leased range is another.

A Canadian citizen can walk any place he pleases on crown land, just don’t damage habitat, particularly if it’s protected grassland.
The issue you might be referring to is the trophy lake within their private property, that they manage and promote as a private sport fishing lake....that’s entirely different, unless you have the balls to walk up the little creek that feeds the lake.
Watercourses cannot be blocked in Canada as access, as they historically are travel routes.
Any private property owner cannot stop someone from travelling through a watercourse, or prospecting, unless they own the mineral rights, and even then, it won’t hold up in court.
Some of the locals in Merritt , accessed that lake lying well inside Douglas Lakes private land, using the old law of “ right to roam”....which originated in Scotland, and was adopted here.
Thats pushing it a little, but they fell within the laws...the other issue was, did Douglas Lake , and the Waltons, who own Walmart block a road, which has access for firefighting through their land illegally?

I'm all for the right of access to crown land. One of the joys of living in BC for me has always been the ability to roam at will, but respectfully, over the land.

But, not being familiar with exactly what goes on around the Douglas Ranch, I have questions too. Were some of those accessing the fishing lakes abusing the private or leased land they crossed? Damaging property? Leaving gates open? Chasing cattle for the fun of it? Creating fire hazards? Tearing up grasslands with their 4x4s?

In principle I resent Americans imposing American attitudes to land in our country. In fairness though, I've roamed around a lot of cattle country in the western states, where the land can be a patchwork of private and public sections. I've often crossed private land there to get to public land, in my 4x4 with Canadian plates, and not really had much push-back from the local cattlemen. I try to be careful and respectful, and it works most of the time. Have people crossing the Douglas Ranch property generally been careful and respectful in the past?

 

[sybian]

I'm all for the right of access to crown land. One of the joys of living in BC for me has always been the ability to roam at will, but respectfully, over the land.

But, not being familiar with exactly what goes on around the Douglas Ranch, I have questions too. Were some of those accessing the fishing lakes abusing the private or leased land they crossed? Damaging property? Leaving gates open? Chasing cattle for the fun of it? Creating fire hazards? Tearing up grasslands with their 4x4s?

In principle I resent Americans imposing American attitudes to land in our country. In fairness though, I've roamed around a lot of cattle country in the western states, where the land can be a patchwork of private and public sections. I've often crossed private land there to get to public land, in my 4x4 with Canadian plates, and not really had much push-back from the local cattlemen. I try to be careful and respectful, and it works most of the time. Have people crossing the Douglas Ranch property generally been careful and respectful in the past?

As far as I know yes...except one, and he might just be the guy who is behind this, and I happen to know he hates cattle ranchers, and hates cows even more.
Its been going on for years, and there’s always the “ weekend warrior” who will ruin it for everyone.
I had a 10 thousand dollar bull shot a few years ago on my range, ....he panicked and put his vehicle in the ditch.
It didn’t work out well for him to say the least, so leaving gates open is just a nuisance, which happens to me all the time.
I’ve had families, or hunters camp on my private property....if it’s a young family, I leave them alone with a warning.
If they bother my stock, cut fences, or start forest or grass fires, they’re sent packing.....if they are on leased crown, they have every right, unless they bother my cattle.


When the cattle boss was instructed to post trespass signs on the leased government range land by the DL owners, he was charged, and quit his job not long after.....some signs remain in Kentucky- Aylene ,and up Kane Valley way.
Those signs are illegal, and might fool some, but the locals just ignore them ,and camp on the lakeshores....there’s going to be a war about it, and it’ll be the cowboys and Indians joining forces against Walmart.

 

[wetnose]

Don't we pay to stock Douglas Lake with fish?

 

[sybian]

Don't we pay to stock Douglas Lake with fish?

Good question.....although I wouldn’t be surprised if they buy them.

 

[nmjoff]

What really bothers me is that some rich bastard is using one of our publicly owned lakes for his own profit and enjoyment which he limits to his friends, clients or guests and excludes a tax paying British Columbians right to access these lakes.

When I hunt, fish and travel in this area I carry a rake and big bags to clean up what some irresponsible shit leaves, I close gates, respect the cattlemen's rights and livelihood.
I have traveled the upper range from Placer creek to the Ashnola River it is beautiful up there.
There are Elk, Deer, the occasional Moose, Beaver, Grouse, owls etc. up there and beautiful scenery.

To allow an individual to have sole "ownership" or exclusive access to lakes like Stoney and Minnie lake is bullshit and needs to be addressed.

This article spells it out pretty clearly...

https://www.wcel.org/blog/when-us-billionaire-claims-bc-fish-and-lakes

 

[Bridge]

I hope that the Supreme Court in Canada sees sense and reverses the decision.

As far as I know yes...except one, and he might just be the guy who is behind this, and I happen to know he hates cattle ranchers, and hates cows even more.
Its been going on for years, and there’s always the “ weekend warrior” who will ruin it for everyone.
I had a 10 thousand dollar bull shot a few years ago on my range, ....he panicked and put his vehicle in the ditch.
It didn’t work out well for him to say the least, so leaving gates open is just a nuisance, which happens to me all the time.
I’ve had families, or hunters camp on my private property....if it’s a young family, I leave them alone with a warning.
If they bother my stock, cut fences, or start forest or grass fires, they’re sent packing.....if they are on leased crown, they have every right, unless they bother my cattle.


When the cattle boss was instructed to post trespass signs on the leased government range land by the DL owners, he was charged, and quit his job not long after.....some signs remain in Kentucky- Aylene ,and up Kane Valley way.
Those signs are illegal, and might fool some, but the locals just ignore them ,and camp on the lakeshores....there’s going to be a war about it, and it’ll be the cowboys and Indians joining forces against Walmart.
[/QUOT

 

[sybian]

What really bothers me is that some rich bastard is using one of our publicly owned lakes for his own profit and enjoyment which he limits to his friends, clients or guests and excludes a tax paying British Columbians right to access these lakes.

When I hunt, fish and travel in this area I carry a rake and big bags to clean up what some irresponsible shit leaves, I close gates, respect the cattlemen's rights and livelihood.
I have traveled the upper range from Placer creek to the Ashnola River it is beautiful up there.
There are Elk, Deer, the occasional Moose, Beaver, Grouse, owls etc. up there and beautiful scenery.

To allow an individual to have sole "ownership" or exclusive access to lakes like Stoney and Minnie lake is bullshit and needs to be addressed.

This article spells it out pretty clearly...

https://www.wcel.org/blog/when-us-billionaire-claims-bc-fish-and-lakes

First....I take my hat off to you, and thank you ,for cleaning the back country.

I have one boundary on my private property that is stream or creek bed.
It is a legal property line, and it changes by the year.....there are set backs defined on legal maps with survey points.
To date it’s hasn’t traversed outside of those large setbacks, and if I altered those setbacks,by building a dam, I would be breaking the law.
In effect I would be tampering with natural habitat, and possibly gaining property with that alteration....DL has flooded their own property to increase the volume of the lake.
This might be defended by their water rights permit, and that may be their ace up the sleeve, in legal defence, as that License may go back 125-150 years.
DL ....from what I understand, has blocked a public access road for their own gain.
I have the same situation on my place, and there are gates and signs on either side of the road.
I can’t close them permanently, only for moving stock, or management....then they have to be opened, for public use. I knew this upon purchase of my land, and it does bring in problems, but that’s just the way it is in Canada.....just because you maintain, or manage a road, watercourse ,or natural feature, doesn’t give you exclusive rights.
I believe that the property surrounding the lake is theirs, but the road is not, nor has it been purchased from the government. If you deny access with a private gate, on public land for provincial or municipal maintenance, doesn’t give you ownership.