Where is the academic evidence to suggest the Nordic Model doesn't work?

[hornygandalf]

There is a lot of rhetoric suggesting that the Nordic Model doesn't work, but for this argument to stand up, there needs to be strong, valid, evidence, preferably multiple studies in peer-reviewed journals.

There is quite a bit of academic research to suggest that the Nordic Model DOES work in terms of reducing the level of prostitution. So, if this battle to stop the introduction of the Nordic Model is to be successful, the research needs to be effectively countered. To give you an idea of the arguments used by academics in support of the Nordic Model and to rebut the critics, take a look at the following (it isn't a peer-reviewed article, but it is written by an academic in Australia):
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/feminist-current/2013/12/10-myths-about-prostitution-trafficking-and-nordic-model

This lays out some of the arguments that will need to be rebutted (with solid evidence) by the industry to have a chance of being successful in stopping the introduction of the Nordic Model in Canada. It certainly appears that the model has been successful at decreasing the level of trafficked women and children, for instance. But, what is the real level of that in Canada? The implications in the media is that it is substantial. Are there solid statistics to demonstrate it is only a small portion of the market (though this probably differs according to geographic location in Canada)?

 

[*emmanuelle]

There is quite a bit of academic research to suggest that the Nordic Model DOES work in terms of reducing the level of prostitution.

That makes sense. I mean it seems pretty obvious that making a recreational activity illegal would reduce the amount of engagement in said activity.

I think many/most of the people who are saying "the Nordic model doesn't work" mean that it doesn't make prostitution any safer. Which is what the goal should be.

edit: nevermind, I see that you say it has reduced trafficking levels. Well that's difficult, because it's pretty hard to argue that that's not a good thing. Even if trafficking levels are only a fraction of what the media says they are, the thought of ANY amount of forced slavery sex is appalling. But there MUST be other ways to reduce trafficking without making buying sex a crime.

 

[*emmanuelle]

^ you're so right. This world is so normal to me that it's easy to forget how abnormal it is for other people.

How do we get people to change their opinions of us and what we do? It seems like a real uphill battle. I even have close friends who, no matter what I tell them, just CANNOT wrap their heads around the fact that I do this voluntarily.

 

[deleted Miss Lux]

^ you're so right. This world is so normal to me that it's easy to forget how abnormal it is for other people.

How do we get people to change their opinions of us and what we do? It seems like a real uphill battle. I even have close friends who, no matter what I tell them, just CANNOT wrap their heads around the fact that I do this voluntarily.

+1 Emmanuelle! The people in my life who had the same judgements are no longer part of my life. But there are people who eventually got it, they just had never had any experience or knowledge other than what the media says... I believe if we share our stories, eventually things will turn around... And really... I think this is a start (Not the Nordic Model, but the fact that there is movement and curiosity)... Good things take time sometimes

 

[hornygandalf]

here's a post from a favourite terbite... this is great..

Nice one. He has a very good point. He is missing out Members of Parliament in that list. I can't believe that none of them ever indulge in the pleasures of a sex professional.

 

[*emmanuelle]

+1 Emmanuelle! The people in my life who had the same judgements are no longer part of my life. But there are people who eventually got it, they just had never had any experience or knowledge other than what the media says... I believe if we share our stories, eventually things will turn around... And really... I think this is a start (Not the Nordic Model, but the fact that there is movement and curiosity)... Good things take time sometimes

You know what's funny? I feel like Justin Bieber getting caught has actually done a lot to put people's mind in the right direction. I mean, if they guy who could sleep with probably a million girls if he wanted to, is paying for it?? Maybe it's not such a weird gross thing after all!

 

[Man Mountain]

These links were posted on another forum and make for some interesting reading:

http://www.bayswan.org/swed/flashback_sweden.html

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/01/09/prostitution-law-battlelines-drawn/

 

[Man Mountain]

I believe that Miss Bijou originally posted this video in a thread about this subject some time ago. I found it interesting then and I think it's worth watching, if you haven't seen it yet.

 

[Cock Throppled]

The analogy to the so-called drug war is appropriate in the Nordic Model.

How long have drugs been illegal?
How many people have been fined or jailed?
How many lives were ruined by outing or incarceration?
How has making drugs illegal, sometimes with very harsh punishment reduced or eliminated drug usage or trafficking?

NOTHING seems to stop adults from making a decision to use drugs, so what are the chances making paid sex illegal will stop a basic human drive?

Driving it underground is the worst possible thing to do if proponents have the best interests of sex workers in mind, as they claim.

 

[bcneil]

If we beheaded anyone who speeds 10 over the limit, there will be less speeders. Think of all the children that have been run over, and the pain it caused their mommy

 

[vancity_cowboy]

Nice one. He has a very good point. He is missing out Members of Parliament in that list. I can't believe that none of them ever indulge in the pleasures of a sex professional.

nope, they've got the page boys to look after their needs

 

[Fred Zed]

http://rightswork.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Issue-Paper-4.pdf

Not surprisingly, the experiment [Nordic Model] has failed. In
the thirteen years since the law was enacted,
the Swedish government has been unable to
prove that the law has reduced the number of
sex buyers or sellers or stopped trafficking. All it
has to show for its efforts are a (contested)
public support for the law and more danger for
street-based sex workers.

Swedish Sexworkers critique of Nordic model
http://www.petraostergren.com/pages.aspx?r_id=40716

 

[Fred Zed]

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2014/01/03/the-nordic-model-of-prostitution-law-is-a-myth/

 

[Tugela]

That makes sense. I mean it seems pretty obvious that making a recreational activity illegal would reduce the amount of engagement in said activity.

I think many/most of the people who are saying "the Nordic model doesn't work" mean that it doesn't make prostitution any safer. Which is what the goal should be.

edit: nevermind, I see that you say it has reduced trafficking levels. Well that's difficult, because it's pretty hard to argue that that's not a good thing. Even if trafficking levels are only a fraction of what the media says they are, the thought of ANY amount of forced slavery sex is appalling. But there MUST be other ways to reduce trafficking without making buying sex a crime.

The argument that it reduces trafficking by eliminating demand intellectually is pretty much the same as saying that banning driving will reduce the incidence of drunk driving.

Trafficking will always go on, and since it is illegal to start with, I doubt making johns criminally culpable really makes much difference in that regard - those girls will still be trafficked.

Also, there is a distinction between trafficking and sex slavery. Trafficking in the broader sense happens with the wilful consent of the trafficked person - in most cases those folk are here working illegally. This is what trafficking typically is, it isn't sex slavery. In their case the crime is not against them personally, but rather against society in that they take jobs that could otherwise be fulfilled by Canadians. The Nordic model would slow that down in the sense that there would be less overall demand, but you should note that those particular girls are not victims.

The girls that really are victims of sex slavery are operating below the radar anyway, and the Nordic model does not change that. If anything, it makes them MORE vulnerable because it places the industry underground where such things are even less likely to be detected. In addition, because the Nordic model focusses on the johns rather than the girls, the probability of these girls being detected by the police is going to be lower since they would be focussing on what the johns were doing, not the girls.

And in any case, there are already laws in place to deal specifically with trafficking, all that needs to happen is that resources for investigation and prosecution of those crimes should be put in place. They do not need the Nordic model, or any other model for that matter, to deal with that problem.

 

[normisanas]

The Swedish Police conducted research into the effects of the Nordic Model (which was implemented in Sweden) and here are the findings:


"""
There were fewer sex clients, but a larger proportion were dangerous
Sex workers had less time to assess clients
The prices for sexual services had fallen
More clients were ready to pay for unprotected sex
Sex workers felt that their risk of violence had increased
The report also brought to light a new form of crime that had arisen: women posing as sex workers to rob clients (who would fear reporting the robbery to the police for fear of being charged with attempting to purchase sexual services).



"""

see: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/prostitution-laws-what-are-the-nordic-and-new-zealand-models-1.1603213

 

[*emmanuelle]

The argument that it reduces trafficking by eliminating demand intellectually is pretty much the same as saying that banning driving will reduce the incidence of drunk driving.

Trafficking will always go on, and since it is illegal to start with, I doubt making johns criminally culpable really makes much difference in that regard - those girls will still be trafficked.

Also, there is a distinction between trafficking and sex slavery. Trafficking in the broader sense happens with the wilful consent of the trafficked person - in most cases those folk are here working illegally. This is what trafficking typically is, it isn't sex slavery. In their case the crime is not against them personally, but rather against society in that they take jobs that could otherwise be fulfilled by Canadians. The Nordic model would slow that down in the sense that there would be less overall demand, but you should note that those particular girls are not victims.

The girls that really are victims of sex slavery are operating below the radar anyway, and the Nordic model does not change that. If anything, it makes them MORE vulnerable because it places the industry underground where such things are even less likely to be detected. In addition, because the Nordic model focusses on the johns rather than the girls, the probability of these girls being detected by the police is going to be lower since they would be focussing on what the johns were doing, not the girls.

And in any case, there are already laws in place to deal specifically with trafficking, all that needs to happen is that resources for investigation and prosecution of those crimes should be put in place. They do not need the Nordic model, or any other model for that matter, to deal with that problem.

Nicely put! If you haven't already, you should copy paste this as part of a response to the gov't survey online.

 

[susi]

from a link also posted by fred...

Health issues

All the women I have spoken to report feelings of emotional stress due to the legal situation and how they are treated socially. They have to hide, lie and keep double identities. They fear harassment and ostracism for themselves, their children and their partners. The emotional stress also stems from a vulnerable and unclear financial situation. Since most women do not pay taxes they are scared of what will happen to them once they retire. Their pensions will be low and barely adequate to live on. When they fall ill, they still have to work or rely on what savings they may have, instead of relying on a right to workers compensation. The legal situation regarding taxation is unclear and varies from city to city. Some tax authorities will leave sexworkers alone, others will seek them out and tax them according to an arbitrary estimate. This worries sexworkers. Some of them have been subjected to this procedure with disastrous financial consequences. Others have only heard about it and worry it will happen to them. Sexworkers report an increase in their emotional stress subsequent to the introduction of the new law. The sexworkers say that they now feel more worried about being found out as well as more worried about future income. Several report that they now have more anxiety, sleeping problems, concentration problems as well as problems related to eating disorders, alcohol and drugs. The sexworkers I have interviewed report greater feelings of powerlessness and resignation than before the introduction of the new legislation. They feel as if there is "no point" in trying to change the system (or its direct effects on their lives) and that no one supports them or speaks for them.

What they want

Sexworkers express anger about Swedish politicians who, in their opinion, brag and tell lies about the effect of the new law vis-à-vis other countries. They wish that other countries might find out "the truth" about the effects of the law. They also strongly discourage other countries from adopting similar legislation. Even if few of the sexworkers I have spoken to claim to know the details of the new legislation regarding prostitution in the Netherlands and Germany, they all speak positively of it. They wish that prostitution in Sweden would be legalized (or at least decriminalized), that there would be unions and organizations for sexworkers, that the stigma around them would be lifted and that they would be granted the same rights and obligations as other women and citizens. Women selling sex to support a drug habit seem to be less likely to regard sexwork as a positive experience or as a work. But they are just as critical of the Swedish legislation and policy. They
would like to have better access to a methadone or subutex program, currently something only a fixed number of people have.

Official reports

Criticisms similar to those made by my respondents were voiced in the three official reports made since the law against purchasing of sexual services was introduced. One year after the law was passed, the National Council for Crime Prevention (Brottsförebyggande rådet), conducted a survey of the practice of the new law and what problems had been encountered. The National Board of Health and Welfare (Socialstyrelsen), also published a report one year after the law was introduced. Their task was to document existing knowledge of the spread of prostitution. The National Police Board (Rikspolisstyrelsen) published a report based on information from the first two years of practice of the new law. Their task was to evaluate the practice of the law and make suggestions about new methods in police work against prostitution. All of these reports find that street prostitution dropped immediately after the introduction of the law. They also suggest that recruitment was lower, although the National Council for Crime Prevention means that the exact number of prostitutes in for example Stockholm was hard to estimate because street prostitution had moved to other streets and took place in a larger area than before. All of the authorities say that there is no evidence that prostitution was lower overall. Instead hidden prostitution had probably increased. All of the reports address the problems emerging after the new law was introduced. The National Police Board writes that the sexworkers that are still in street prostitution have a tough time. This, they explain, is because customers are fewer, prices are lower and competition harder for the women. This leads to the sex workers selling sex without protection of condoms for a higher rate, and it leads to them having to accept more customers than before (since the prices are lower). The respondents in the National Board of Health and Welfare's study (of which none are sexworkers themselves) believe female sexworkers now experience more difficulties and are more exposed then before. The buyers are "worse" and more dangerous, and the women who cannot stop or move their business are dependent on these more dangerous men, since they cannot afford to turn them down as before. Even the buyers that were interviewed believe that the law mostly affected the already socially marginalised women. According to the National Police Board, the healthcare system has worries about declining health among sex workers and spreading sexually transmitted disease. The National Police Board has also found the law an obstacle to prosecuting profiteers who exploit the sexual labour of others. Earlier legal cases against such men could sometimes be supported by the testimonies of sex-buyers. But these men are no longer willing to assist, since they themselves are now guilty of committing a crime. The Police Board report also points out that sexworkers have fallen into a difficult, constructed, in-between position with regard to the new law. The female sex worker sells sex, but this is not a criminal act. However, because purchasing sexual services is now a crime, the sexworker can be made to appear as a witness in the trial process. She therefore has neither the rights of the accused or the victim. The Police Board report also discusses the fact that sexworkers are subject to an invasive searches and questioning, so that evidence against the clients might be obtained in flagranti.

Official reports

RPS (Rikspolisstyrelsen) 2001. Rapport. "Lag (1998:408) om förbund mot köp av sexuella tjänster. Metodutveckling avseende åtgärder mot prostitution." Av Nord, Anders och Rosenberg, Tomas. Polismyndigheten i Skåne. ALM 429-14044/99. 2001. POB -429-4616/99 SoS (Socialstyrelsen) 2000. "Kännedom om prostitution 1998-1999." SoS rapport 2000:5. BRÅ (Brottsförebyggande Rådet) 2000. Brå rapport 2000:4. "Förbud mot köp av sexuella tjänster. Tillämpningen av lagen under första året." Brottsförebyggande rådet. Stockholm.

 

[susi]

remember, much of the so called research claiming success for this model is in direct conflict with the swedish governments findings.... those who wish to abolish prostitution of course ignore this and hoist it as a success none the less...

if the goal is to further destabilize the safety of sex workers, well sure...then its working.....

love susie

 

[HankQuinlan]

Nordic model arguement on why the voice of sex workers should be ignored.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mar...prostitution-law_b_4864025.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

I find it interesting that every single comment on that article points out what bullshit it is. These arguments always include "we must provide opportunities for women who are struggling" but that part is never addressed in the legislation. They simply have to struggle by working at McDonalds or other disgusting, minimum wage or illegal below-minimum-wage jobs. And they never address gay prostitution...it just doesn't exist, apparently...or else rent boys are in a different category and do it "by choice" because they are male.

 

[hornygandalf]

Some good discussion here. And some good points following the Huffpost piece as well (as noted by Hank).
For instance:

Even though Mary Honeyball will claim that sex workers should be decriminalized, Members states who already criminalize sex workers, will not be encouraged to decriminalize them. However, those countries now can use Honeyball’s report to criminalize clients of sex workers – in addition to sex workers.

Therefore, the report effectively will encourage Member States to adopt a prohibitionist model, where prostitution in all its forms is policed and criminalized. It will lead to increased violence against sex workers, it will lead to police abuse and violence, including rape in order to avoid conviction, it will lead to decreased efforts against human trafficking, as efforts will be channelled towards sex work, not trafficking. They will be treated first and foremost as criminals or „unworthy“ second-class people. Often sex workers will be jailed.

Sex workers will not be listened to when it comes to sex work legislation. After all, not even the European Parliament fulfills its aspiration for democratic procedures. Why should member states?

Repressive legislation will remain in place in most member states, thus nullifying what the Honeyball report wanted.

Last but not least, full criminalization of sex work will at some point make its way to Scandinavia. A recent study has shown that more than 50% of both the Swedish and Norwegian population support the criminalization of sex workers. The stigma has not been reduced. Swedish anti-prostitution feminism will show its real face, they hate sex workers.

The Swedish Model is the first step to full criminalization of sex workers.

and...

I absolutely agree. Ms Honeyball is not concerned with toilet cleaners, dish washers or garbage collectors, who probably chose this work for the same economic reasons or even worse. The real difference and the real reason why feminists oppose sex work but not toilet cleaning is that one has to do with sex. For stuck-up prudes like Ms Honeyball anything related to sex is dirty and immoral and cannot be chosen. So why should a woman clean toilets or wash dishes for ... 1000 quid a month (let's say) when, if she's smart and pretty enough, she can be a high-end escort for 500 quid a night. Which one of these professions is more oppressing and demeaning? To Ms Honeyball - the second, because it has to do with sex. Adult, consensual sex work is, in my opinion, the most feminist and "women power" profession - it's the woman making an independent choice what to do with her own body and having the power to say "yes" to one and "no" to another, thus making herself the powerful and desired one in the interaction. If she says no - the guy will have to please himself frustratedly... Shame on you and the whole EP, Ms. Honeyball!

Thanks Susi for the stuff you have posted.
New Zealand has been raised as an example of decriminalization that has worked. Is that the model that should be advocated and given a lot more air time here as the preferred alternative?

Some links regarding the New Zealand experience or related research:
http://www.otago.ac.nz/christchurch/otago018607.pdf
http://www.justice.govt.nz/policy/commercial-property-and-regulatory/prostitution/prostitution-law-review-committee/publications/plrc-report/documents/report.pdf
http://prostitution.procon.org/sourcefiles/newzealandreport.pdf
http://www.gwu.edu/~soc/docs/Weitzer/Prostitution_Facts.pdf
And something more recent suggesting that there should be a shift to the Nordic model there:
http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/former-prostitutes-tell-mps-law-has-failed/5/174832

My quick glance at these suggest that numbers of sex workers did not increase significantly in New Zealand following decriminalization, nor was there any evidence of trafficking (well, isolation could have something to do with that).