What Kind of Society Are We???

[Bad Santa]

What kind of society are we if we still permit the denigration and devaluing of an identifiable group amongst us? I'm talking about the abhorrent treatment of service providers that seems to be condoned by so many.

The recent shocking revelations about the Pickton fiasco have shone new light on society's attitudes. Many have made comments implying that these poor women's lives are somehow worth less than other people's. We hear comments like, "they chose their profession and they knew the risks."

I find this attitude disgusting! When a soldier, a police officer or a fireman dies while doing their job, do we hear anyone saying, "they chose their profession, they knew the risks?" No! Show some respect. These women are human beings and their lives are just as valuable as anyone elses!

Our society's backward attitude toward sex trade workers shows in how we treat them. Even though what they do is legal in our country, they are the only identifiable group where we still criminalize many activities associated with their profession.

Also, they are the only group in our society where it is still 'OK' to refer to them by some vile derogatory term. We wouldn't think of using the "N" word when referring to blacks or the "F" word when referring to gays. But people seem to have no problem referring to sex trade workers as "H*s" or "sk*nks" or "h**kers" or the old standard, "wh*res."

A society devalues itself if it permits the devaluing of any one segment of people. This disrespect must stop!

We pooners should be at the forefront of fighting for these ladies rights as we are the beneficiaries of the wonderful services they provide. It takes courage for a young woman to take up this profession with society constantly kicking her in the teeth simply for doing her job!

I have received so much pleasure from these incredible ladies over the years. They've certainly brought much joy into my life! Thank you, you wonderful 'Sisters of Mercy'!

Tomorrow, I have an appointment with my all time favorite SP. Thank God she and all the others have the "guts" to do their jobs!

 

[Miss*Bijou]

Society dishes the same treatment and judgment to homeless people, poor people... Not having money makes people "expendable" to society. Those who have the resources (monetary, influence, connections, etc) can easily fight for their own rights, to make sure they're noticed and heard.


It's all about class, social hierarchy, power and money. Who has it and who doesn't determines your value in society.

Those with none or very little of it suffer because the rest of society doesn't care unless they're forced to care, which they seldom are. But who's going to both have power/money/resources and be willing to use it for the purpose of helping a segment of the population that is almost invisible and ignored or that has nothing to offer back in term of money, power or any other benefit?


Sadly, not many.. Which is why they're ignored.


IMHO.

 

[mistressfreyja]

Thanks for your support, Bad Santa.

I have met more amazing and intelligent women in this trade, than any other facet of my life.

Changes definitely need to be made.

The idea that being a SP warrants any violence or harassment that comes our way, is ludicrous.

We are not expendable members of society. NONE of us.

 

[Bad Santa]

Thanks, everyone. Here's hoping that attitudes can change, Dood. I've found that people usually have to fight to change attitudes. And we've got a long way to go with this one!

 

[picknshvl]

" No man is an Island entire unto himself, each is a piece of the whole, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as if a manor of thy niehbor or thy own were. Any mans death diminishes ME, for I am involved in MANKIND. Send never then to find for whom the bell tolls, IT TOLLS FOR THEE!!" John Donne

" There is honor in ALL Labor" unknown

 

[vancity_cowboy]

in my opinion society's negative views are a lot more about the murdered women being street level drug addicts than them being prostitutes. a higher end sp suffering an aggravated or potentially deadly assault would bat her eyelashes at the cops and eventually get her concerns heard, but a down and out woman, even if she isn't an sp at all, gets no respect and the same level of assault will be ignored

also, i watched the global tv news about the same event and they used slightly different words to describe the failed prosecution of Picton. they said that the assaulted woman '...refused to cooperate...' with the prosecutor '...out of fear for her life...'. now that is a slant that the printed news release does not offer which may have made it quite misleading. it's one thing to ignore an assault for technical legal reasons and quite another if the principle witness refuses to cooperate in the prosecution

i wonder what the truth really was...

 

[threepeat]

I think part of the problem is that all SPs get painted with the same brush. Before I started pooning, I didn't realize that there were distinct "classes" of SPs -- high-end girls, middle class girls, and low-end girls. The media only portrays the strung-out drug addict on skid row who needs to turn tricks to pay off her habit and/or her pimp. Before I got involved in this biz, I never realized how much money these girls make, which is another secret the media hides. I think this image is portrayed to keep girls away from the business. There are quite a few intelligent and educated women working in the business, who can and have worked in square jobs in the "real" world.

The only way to break down any stereotype is to change peoples' minds one at a time through positive experiences. It's a slow process, but that's the only way to get lasting change. Everything else is window dressing.

That being said, some SPs do not make it easy on LE by living off the grid -- not paying taxes; changing names, addresses, and phone numbers frequently; associating with drug dealers and/or gang members -- and not co-operating with police if the police want something. Police are people too, and it's a two-way street. If enough SPs give them bad experiences, it is human nature that they will give a rat's ass when given a choice between helping an SP in trouble and helping a different person in trouble.

 

[methodman]

Bad Santa:

As I pointed out in another thread, SP's are where blacks, jews, gays & women were 50 to 100 years ago. Not only does society treat them as second class citizens, some of their own clients treat them that way. This isn't about the Pickton's in life, it's about too many people that view SP's as nothing more than "whores" (derogatory sense of the word). There seems to be the belief that if someone sells sex for a living it gives a person the right to demean & hurt them.

Attitudes can change Santa. Stereotypes can & will change. I say that because I'm one of those people that harboured those stereotypes. PERB was the venue that helped change my ideas about what SP's were about...thanks in large part to this very amazing SP that wrote me a few years ago to comment on something I'd written. She was intelligent & articulate and broke every stereotype of SP's. Over time, I came to have great respect for this secretive person on the other end of the connection...now I have much more than respect ;-). This forum is filled with some kick ass chicks who, if real life would allow, would make great female friends (none of it about sex either). Here's hoping the rest of society will open it's mind and see them for what they really are....just normal people.

Every sp (about 50 of them) i know call each other hoes

i suppose

wake up

sugar coating a cherry tree will still make

a cherry tree

 

[postiepete]

Another story was released today stating that Pickton told an under cover cop in prison that before getting caught he had planned to kill another 50 women and then take a break before doing 25 more. The police have made yet another public apology for not acting on the Pickton case sooner. This is probably why cops are taking sp's complaints serious now.


The sad part is I have heard several sp’s tell me of the awful things that our very own members here on Perb have done. Yes people here who are considered well regarded can get out of hand. The said sp saw this guy a few times so thought he was ok, on his 3rd booking he took the condom off and raped her and left her beaten. She was ok but couldn’t work for 2 weeks. If she was to do anything he was going to upset her life starting with trying to get her children taken away from her, telling her family and her other employment of her being a prostitute. She feels that she can’t do a dam thing about it either.

Yes this goes on right here with our very own members. The sad part is when she posted about it 2 other sp’s stood up for the guy and the post was taken down.

 

[Bad Santa]

Santa, the best way to make something "normal and legitimate" is to make it public. For the SP's, it's a catch 22, they have to be secretive because of society, yet if they could come "out", slowly people would see 'hey, she's just like me". That's the tough part. Perhaps a good start is for pooners to stop living in paranoia of associating themselves with SP's...because in the end man, MOST men have pooned in their life. I mean, really, why should any stigma be attached to paying for sex? No one thinks less of you for buying any other goods/services.

Bingo! I agree completely Dood. Once we get rid of the stigma, half the battle will be won. But that first half is the toughest part of the battle.

Wow, that almost brought tears to my eyes. I haven't read the comments on Picton yet, but will do. Anyway my thought is that I think most of the murdered women had much tougher times than the majority of us here. These ladies were often addicted to drugs and had transient life styles and that is why they were targets, because perhaps it would take longer for anyone to figure out that they were missing. That doesn't mean that their lives were less valuable, in fact maybe we should realize that there may have been some very tragic circumstances in their lives to lead them to the life they had.

My own daughter was bound, analy raped and tortured for a period of 6 years before she told. It messed her up really bad, and despite me quitting my job, and dropping out of school to be there for her 100%, tons of counselling, etc, she still became a drug addict, and hooked up with a much older guy who made pornos of her, she became a prostitute, but hated it and did drugs even more to help her cope.... She very well could have become one of these ladies, and through no fault of her own, but because someone else damaged her before she was even 2 years of age, and affected her for life!

We take for granted that we have all had an innocent childhood, when in reality many of us, including boys have been victims from an early age and it may continue to make them a victim or even someone who becomes angry and agressive and victimizes others..... We need to understand that if these children grew up in a different life that as adults they may have whole new opportunities, socialization, and family that would have made their life a whole lot different.

Yes for us ladies that provide the services that we do, I believe that we do make men happy and we give a new perspective to men who need a little more.... Most men who come to see me don't want wild, crazy sex, they way companionship, to talk, cuddle, and be pampered. They love their wives, but things become routine and they no longer stop to savour each other. These men just want to feel intimacy, the human connectivity. A simple thing like stroking his forehand and running your fingers down the side of his face, listening to him as he talks, engaging with him, etc, means that he gets a little something that he is missing, and it recharges him and probably makes him a better husband and father, and employee for that matter. Just as we women may want to go to the spa for some pampering, men enjoy the same with an intimate encounter.

I love you guys and that is what gave me the courage to come back to work because I missed meeting all you wonderful men who truly appreciate me and the rest of us ladies!

Melody, you are amazing. That post almost brought tears to my eyes. I hope things get better for your daughter!

Every sp (about 50 of them) i know call each other hoes

i suppose

wake up

sugar coating a cherry tree will still make

a cherry tree

MM, they can call each other "h**s" all they want but you can't otherwise you're nothing but an assh*le!

 

[Bad Santa]

.....The sad part is I have heard several sp’s tell me of the awful things that our very own members here on Perb have done. Yes people here who are considered well regarded can get out of hand. The said sp saw this guy a few times so thought he was ok, on his 3rd booking he took the condom off and raped her and left her beaten. She was ok but couldn’t work for 2 weeks. If she was to do anything he was going to upset her life starting with trying to get her children taken away from her, telling her family and her other employment of her being a prostitute. She feels that she can’t do a dam thing about it either.

Yes this goes on right here with our very own members. The sad part is when she posted about it 2 other sp’s stood up for the guy and the post was taken down.

Yeah, you're right Pete, fear is what keeps people down and it's fear we have to fight! That's why Sensuousmelody is a "HERO" in my eyes!

I was afraid that my granddaughter would be taken away, and that is why I didn't want to call the police after I was severely beaten and couldn't work for a whole month ( I am still healing my face and have permanent eye damage), but my husband convinced me to. I fought for 13 months to get custody of my granddaughter who was born to a drug addicted teen mom (story of her molestation leading to her downward spiral in other posts), and I was terrified to tell the police.

The thing is though I rent a seperate suite to do buisness in and I send my child to very good daycare, and so my profession has nothing to do with her. When I have to go to trial to testifiy against the guy who beat my face in I know this will all come out, and at first I was afraid, but now I am not. I have the courage to do what I do because it give me flexibility and more time to spend with my family. In the morning when I see that baby girl's face and I get to spend 2 hours with her before the babysitter picks her up I am so very happy. I am also generally home to cook dinner for my family, instead of still sitting at the office 1.5 hours away on the bus and working OT for no pay because I am on salary...... My husband supports my profession and I only started after I asked him it was OK, and in all honesty it makes me a better family person because I can be there for my family! : o )

Melody, God I wish you so much luck in this! You are such a fighter. We should all have so much courage! When this is all said and done you should write a book about your experiences. We could all learn from you Sweetheart!

 

[postiepete]

I met on going with a sp that went to court after a client was charged and found guilty for assault and confinement last winter. It all turned out well but the entire court system did stress her out pretty bad. She said she would never do that again. The papers wanted to publish her name and claimed it was her chosen profession no different then if a reporter did a story on an assault anywhere else in which names of employees and businesses would be identified. She had to get a lawyer to fight the lift on the publicity ban.

 

[Bad Santa]

The battle can't be won until a person can legally "communicate" for the purpose of buying or selling sex with a consenting adult. Also, It has to be legal to have paid sex in your home or a place rented for the purpose of having paid sex. Until then, people can claim that prostitution is legal all they want, the reality is that having paid sex can get you arrested.

All of the other issues are because it's illegal to "communicate", it's illegal to live off the "avails" and it is illegal to operate a "common bawdy house". When people can work openly and safely, it becomes just another job that some will do and some won't do.

These "dumb ass" laws are a big part of the problem and they do nothing to actually make women working in the business safer. Quite the opposite actually!

I met on going with a sp that went to court after a client was charged and found guilty for assault and confinement last winter. It all turned out well but the entire court system did stress her out pretty bad. She said she would never do that again. The papers wanted to publish her name and claimed it was her chosen profession no different then if a reporter did a story on an assault anywhere else in which names of employees and businesses would be identified. She had to get a lawyer to fight the lift on the publicity ban.

Every woman who fights for what's right is a "Hero" in my eyes! Too bad the system is so slanted against them to make everything an uphill battle!

 

[uncleg]

What kind of society are we if we still permit the denigration and devaluing of an identifiable group amongst us? I'm talking about the abhorrent treatment of service providers that seems to be condoned by so many.

The recent shocking revelations about the Pickton fiasco have shone new light on society's attitudes. Many have made comments implying that these poor women's lives are somehow worth less than other people's. We hear comments like, "they chose their profession and they knew the risks."

I find this attitude disgusting! When a soldier, a police officer or a fireman dies while doing their job, do we hear anyone saying, "they chose their profession, they knew the risks?" No! Show some respect. These women are human beings and their lives are just as valuable as anyone elses!

Our society's backward attitude toward sex trade workers shows in how we treat them. Even though what they do is legal in our country, they are the only identifiable group where we still criminalize many activities associated with their profession.

Also, they are the only group in our society where it is still 'OK' to refer to them by some vile derogatory term. We wouldn't think of using the "N" word when referring to blacks or the "F" word when referring to gays. But people seem to have no problem referring to sex trade workers as "H*s" or "sk*nks" or "h**kers" or the old standard, "wh*res."

A society devalues itself if it permits the devaluing of any one segment of people. This disrespect must stop!

We pooners should be at the forefront of fighting for these ladies rights as we are the beneficiaries of the wonderful services they provide. It takes courage for a young woman to take up this profession with society constantly kicking her in the teeth simply for doing her job!

I have received so much pleasure from these incredible ladies over the years. They've certainly brought much joy into my life! Thank you, you wonderful 'Sisters of Mercy'!

Tomorrow, I have an appointment with my all time favorite SP. Thank God she and all the others have the "guts" to do their jobs!

It's nice to see that your head is in the right place, what about your feet ? Have you ever attended any march or protest in support of sex trade workers ?

 

[JFF009]

We're all failures in life, just some of us have support systems to help us find our way. Others don't.

rep points for you dood...great comment...nail / head

 

[HB40]

I had thought you better than that.

Hubba's right then, you don't understand much.

 

[HB40]

Regarding HH, I do now. But only about him. Interpersonal relationships are all about learning how the other person relates.

I have learned how HH relates HB.

It was humour, maybe JFF can explain it to you.

 

[mistressfreyja]

Ropey, we love your input here.

Hubba is a button-pusher. just ignore. Don't let it upset you.

I personally appreciate both of you.

Guys, go easy on each other.

I understood your humor.

But there is a kernel of truth in it as well. I have learned how HH relates HB. So, in the humor, one can find the kernel and use both.

Usually my misunderstanding of humor comes when I think I might have transgressed the right of another.

 

[HubbaHubba]

I never thought of that. The idea of someone posting words just to get another person out of sorts is so totally alien to my thinking.

Thank you for this understanding Miss Freyja. It's just best to ignore his attacks then rather than feed into his button pushing.

There was no attack you baby......you took exception to my sarcasm from a silly thing you said. You've repeated yourself about 10 times.....what you said was still silly, silly, silly.............deal with it.

 

[mistressfreyja]

Who cares, guys?

My thought, is why the in-fighting. There are lots of dipshits to call a spade a spade.

You are just two different people, with different thoughts. What's wrong with that? Nada, my friends.

There was no attack you baby......you took exception to my sarcasm from a silly thing you said. You've repeated yourself about 10 times.....what you said was still silly, silly, silly.............deal with it.