Carman Fox

Vancouver Teachers taping kids mouths shut!?!?

Okay...we all have terrible teacher stories. But what about the cover of the Province today?



In my day we heard stories about being hit with rulers. I personally never witnessed or experienced any teacher/student abuse when I was a student.
And I was a bad ass in class (if you can imagine).

But to TAPE a child's mouth shut?

What do you call that type of punishment?
 

myselftheother

rubatugtug
Dec 2, 2004
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vancouver
Do you actually know the particulars of the story or just going by the headline?


Okay...we all have terrible teacher stories. But what about the cover of the Province today?



In my day we heard stories about being hit with rulers. I personally never witnessed or experienced any teacher/student abuse when I was a student.
And I was a bad ass in class (if you can imagine).

But to TAPE a child's mouth shut?

What do you call that type of punishment?
 

Man Mountain

Too Old To Die Young
Oct 29, 2006
3,851
29
0
Vancouver
Do you actually know the particulars of the story or just going by the headline?
Here ya go:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Van...ng+students+with+duct+tape/8548201/story.html

Vancouver high school teacher disciplined after shutting up students with duct tape
By Graham Slaughter, Ian Austin and Elaine O'Connor, The Province
June 20, 2013 11:39 AM

In Ms. Fowler’s math class, chatty pupils have two choices: They can either report to the office or have their mouths duct-taped shut.

In three recent cases, students chose the tape.

It’s an unconventional punishment that has raised questions about how seriously the province disciplines its teachers.

Margo Anne Fowler, a Vancouver teacher at Sir Winston Churchill Secondary School, was given only a warning by the B.C. Teacher Regulation Branch, the Ministry of Education’s watchdog for teachers, after she admitted to duct-taping students’ mouths shut. Her professional misconduct was uncovered in an investigation by the Vancouver School Board, which said it has “no current issues” with the teacher.

“We have no concerns of her moving forward at Churchill,” said board spokesman Kurt Heinrich, who confirmed that Fowler still works for the school and was never suspended.

The duct-tape punishments came to light this week after the Teacher Regulation Branch posted reports of the professional misconduct online as part of Fowler’s punishment.

In the first incident, the teacher told a talkative Grade 8 student that he could either go to the office or have his mouth duct-taped shut. He picked the tape. Photos of the event eventually surfaced on Facebook.

On another occasion Fowler told a Grade 8 boy to duct-tape his mouth shut when he was speaking too loudly in class. The student complied. A Grade 10 student was later punished in a similar fashion.

The teacher admitted to all three incidents in a resolution agreement with the Teacher Regulation Branch signed on May 30.

It’s not clear whether the students duct-taped their own mouths or if the teacher did it. Neither the Teacher Regulation Branch nor the school board would elaborate, citing privacy issues.

“From all reports, this is an excellent teacher who is highly-respected by her colleagues and well-liked by her students," said BCTF president Susan Lambert. “She has acknowledged and apologized for her actions, and cooperated fully with both the Vancouver School Board and Teacher Regulation Branch processes. She has already been reprimanded by the school board and disciplined by the TRB.

“The Teacher Regulation Branch’s policy of making decisions public on its website adds a disproportionate level of public shaming to the discipline. The TRB should be mindful of this consequence.”

The incident, if reported to Vancouver police, would likely be investigated, a police spokesman said.

“The investigation would involve whether the application of force was applied intentionally, consent was given (and lawfully obtained), and if the application of duct tape was determined to be a ‘level of force,’” said Sgt. Randy Fincham, adding that the incident had not been reported to police.

One of B.C.’s top criminologists explained that since there was no apparent intent to harm, it’s not likely that the teacher would be charged with assault.

“I think it falls under the umbrella of stupidity,” said Darryl Placas, a criminologist at the University at the Fraser Valley.

Students interviewed at the school Wednesday described Fowler as an unconventional teacher who knows how to connect with her pupils.

Grade 11 student Jonah Rudy said he took the duct-tape incident as a joke, but understands that others might not see it that way.

“I kind of see it as a joke, I’d probably put the tape on my face,” Rudy said. “It depends whether the kid saw it as a joke.”

Parent Ron Fung said he doesn’t know the specifics, but thinks the teacher’s actions were outdated.

“We live in a modern society — this is something like the ’50s,” said Fung, who was picking up his child at school.

“I wouldn’t think asking a student to duct-tape is right.”
Based on what I saw on last night's global news report on this, this woman is actually quite popular with the students. Student body representatives are vocally defending her. It sounds like the students, who were being disruptive in class were given the choice of duct taping their mouths shut or being sent to the office and chose the duct tape option and actually saw humour in it. Pictures were taken and posted on Facebook, where others saw it and then reported the incident.
 
Do you actually know the particulars of the story or just going by the headline?
I read the 24 hours version (you know the daily paper they hand out at the Skytrain) which also included many more tales of Vancouver teacher abuse of students.

Thank you for providing the link. I was just so shocked when I got home, I could not wait to read what you all thought.
 

grusse

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2010
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to me, the kid on the front page of the Province looks amused by it.

when I was in grade 5 we had a great teacher, gruff old guy with a great sense of humor.there was one hellion who could never stay in his seat
and old Mr.___ was always threatening(in a funny way) to tie him to his chair.Everybody said "yeah!" incl. the hellion.We all laughed about it.

one day Mr._____got some skipping rope&tied the hellion to his desk.Everybody loved it, esp. the hellion.

big laugh but then the fire alarm went off.Mr.____& the teacher next door, a young guy, couldn't get the knots untied&had to carry the kid in his desk
downstairs&out to the field.

we're supposed to be lined up straight like everyone else's class, but we're trying to screen the desk so Mr.____ could work on getting knots undone.
Principal came by, saw this,& the 2 teachers were told to report to his office, f....g hilarious.

My point being,in this case, no harm, no foul, nobody got hurt, well, the 2 teachers got s..t but we loved them for it.

I wonder if the duct tape thing might be similar.the students were given the choice&chose the tape.
grade8 students are gonna love the attention they get from this type of thing

I can't help but feel there's been a huge over-reaction here.
 

CJ Tylers

Retired Sr. Member
Jan 3, 2003
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The students duct tapped themselves. The teacher did not touch them.

Yes, there are some nutty teachers out there that need to be shut down... and for every one of them, there are 20-30 students out there that are disruptive, abusive and potentially dangerous to the surrounding children. If I was a parent, and my child went through what I had to go through, I would be down at the schools screaming about other peoples idiot children and a handful of dumb teachers who were far too permissive with those children.

I would guess that the parents of those children were either too permissive, never at home, or didn't care... and/or they never could believe that their little darlings were violent, disruptive and perhaps had some sociopath tendencies.

I see NOTHING wrong with what happened here, as the option to report to the principal for detention was also put on the table...nobody was forced to do anything. What IS wrong here is idiot parents who like to over react to everything. Especially when it's their kid, who they've failed to raise to be proper (yeah, blame everyone but themselves for the failure...). I'm sick of it.

Teach your children not to disrupt class, raise them not to be disruptive or rude. Have a little respect for the other kids in the school... teachers can't teach that AND teach a damn subject. Grow up and take some responsibility for your offspring, it's what people USED to do.
 
to me, the kid on the front page of the Province looks amused by it.

snip***.
Agreed, but how about this article. This one the attention is put on the different ways teachers have abused their authority. BTW, myselftheother....this is the article I read on the Skytrain today.

Teachers disciplined for duct tape, sex and gross stories
By Michael Mui, 24 Hours Vancouver
Wednesday, June 19, 2013 3:29:47 PDT PM

A Vancouver teacher is being reprimanded for having chatty students’ mouths duct-taped as a punishment for talking in class.

Sir Winston Churchill teacher Margo Anne Fowler’s deeds were detailed in a B.C. Teacher Regulation decision published on Tuesday.

One Grade 8 student was given an ultimatum of going to the office or having his mouth taped. A photo of that ended up being posted on Facebook and it was revealed he was duct-taped for up to 20 minutes.

The other two incidents, involving a Grade 8 and a Grade 10 student, were similar cases of kids chatting in class and then having their mouths taped.

Two other teachers were disciplined in the new decisions.

Prince George teacher Roderick Lyle Sauve is banned from ever teaching minors after he admitted to having a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old student over 17 months, beginning in 1981.

In a separate decision, Langley teacher Robert Lee Davies has agreed not to teach again after the teaching commission found he told his students a story about the sexual abuse of a First Nations female by the police, a story about drinking and driving, and another one about masturbation.

He also allowed students to tell their own stories that included profanity or tales of their drunken parents, and attempted to “undermine” the school district’s investigation, the commissioner found.

 

CJ Tylers

Retired Sr. Member
Jan 3, 2003
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uh, yes... there are teachers out there that engage in inappropriate relationships with students... they are in close contact with them, and it does happen. It's very, very wrong. It's also a very hot button to push, especially when you want the public to have a certain opinion during contract talks... talks that could easily lead to a strike when the province is seeking multiple years of concessions.

There are many predators out there, they range from extra-curricular group leaders to CEO's, pastors to politicians... but, since they aren't a politicized group, you don't hear about it. It's not worth reporting.

Just be aware of the bias in reporting, even if what is being reported is a truthful representation of what happened. Especially with the Sun and the Province, EVERYTHING is politics.
 
uh, yes... there are teachers out there that engage in inappropriate relationships with students... they are in close contact with them, and it does happen. It's very, very wrong. It's also a very hot button to push, especially when you want the public to have a certain opinion during contract talks... talks that could easily lead to a strike when the province is seeking multiple years of concessions.

There are many predators out there, they range from extra-curricular group leaders to CEO's, pastors to politicians... but, since they aren't a politicized group, you don't hear about it. It's not worth reporting.

Just be aware of the bias in reporting, even if what is being reported is a truthful representation of what happened. Especially with the Sun and the Province, EVERYTHING is politics.
I had a Mid-Eastern friend say to me one time about life in an Muslim country, we were discussing a topic and they said "....oh, that is forbidden." "Forbidden!!", I replied. HA! I never thought of anything being forbidden in my life...

BUT, inappropriate relationships with children are DEFINITELY FORBIDDEN. No matter where in the world you are.
 

CJ Tylers

Retired Sr. Member
Jan 3, 2003
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That is correct, but does it not go without saying?

In any case, it's not my point. There are perverts and dangerous people, as far as kids are concerned, in every walk of life... yet, we only hear about (and jump and shout and scream about) teachers. That they get through the system and are in contact with the kids is terrible (and it's not just teachers, there are or have been administrators and principals in the same boat), and they truly must be removed and punished for what they do.

All I'm saying is that we only hear about pervert teachers, it's very rare for non political "whipping boys" to have such articles and furor whipped up over them. In fact, it's usually only a belated uprising of anger over a pedophile being quietly moved into a nice neighborhood by corrections Canada... when something shows up in the paper.

Politics as usual.

Be mad as hell, just don't generalize.


SexyMelina: I like the cut of your jib. My shop teachers used to throw things at kids whom interrupted, ignored or disrupted the safety talks. They also didn't allow disrespectful talk or horseplay... to this very day, it's those teachers that I remember as being the best teachers I had.
 

deathreborn

Active member
Jan 17, 2011
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early 80's in my elementary school in ontario they had the strap. wasn't used much but it was there.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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Okay...we all have terrible teacher stories. But what about the cover of the Province today?



In my day we heard stories about being hit with rulers. I personally never witnessed or experienced any teacher/student abuse when I was a student.
And I was a bad ass in class (if you can imagine).

But to TAPE a child's mouth shut?

What do you call that type of punishment?
so explain to me this...

it appears obvious to me that the kid had to pose for the flont page pic accompanying the newspaper article with duct tape over his mouth... i mean, i doubt a cell phone pic could be blown up that large without being pretty grainy

so it's ok for a newspaper reporter to convince a kid to tape up his mouth, but it's NOT ok for a teacher to do the same thing?

:confused:
 

HawaiianShirtGuy

New member
May 20, 2013
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as long as students had a genuine choice in the matter - going to the principal's office or the tape - and if they had control over the taping (doing it themselves, being able to undo it in a genuine emergency) - and that is the extent of it, then I frankly have no problem with it.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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The Teacher Regulation Branch isn't exactly known for being a progressive or particularly flexible or compassionate group. They get a complaint, they suspend or pull the teaching cert, almost every time. 99% of the time, it's warranted - touching, abuse, sexual relations, language and other misconduct. The BCTF likes to whine and moan about the shaming, but these teachers aren't exactly shining stars.

Frankly, even though the kids had a choice, it's a pretty stupid thing to do. Yes, a sense of humor is a good thing, but they are going to err on the side of caution, every time and with kids, can you blame them? For those who have no problem with this, are you a parent? I am. If a teacher tapes my kid's mouth shut, they are going to have bigger problems than dealing with the TRB or the cops, they are going to have to deal with me. Condoning this kind of thing could easily lead to a lawsuit, hence the tough stance taken.
however, it's my understanding that that's NOT the way it went down

the teacher gave the children the choice of going to the office, or taping their OWN mouths shut - with no force or physical involvement of the teacher at all

i admit it's a pretty fuckin' goofy thing to do, but i can understand the teacher not being severely disciplined if indeed that's the way it happened
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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Definitely not. That's obviously a stockphoto
ok, so it's a stock photo then

is it right for the stock photographer to suggest to a kid that they get their mouths taped shut?

and if it is, then what's wrong with a teacher suggesting to a kid they have a choice of going to the office or taping their own mouths shut?
 
Vanessa...I was only commenting on the duct tape article.

Thanks. What happened is I read the free daily article on the Skytrain, got off the train, saw the cover of the Province and took a picture.

When MM posted the story only then did I knows the specifics.

Just another way to sell newspapers, I guess.
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
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Frankly, even though the kids had a choice, it's a pretty stupid thing to do. Yes, a sense of humor is a good thing, but they are going to err on the side of caution, every time and with kids, can you blame them? For those who have no problem with this, are you a parent? I am. If a teacher tapes my kid's mouth shut, they are going to have bigger problems than dealing with the TRB or the cops, they are going to have to deal with me. Condoning this kind of thing could easily lead to a lawsuit, hence the tough stance taken.
Typical dumb ass parent who likes the school to baby sit his kid every day, but doesn't address the issue of why his kid need disciplining that the parents refuse to give or teaches kids to respect others and obey authority.

I've talked to teachers who take incredible abuse from kids because students know they can't be touched and their stupid parents will always back the kid no matter what. Do any parents ever ask why their darling are so abusive and rude to teachers rather than always jump to the defence of little terrorist Johnny?

The reason there are so many kids bullying and generally behaving like assholes is because the parents are even bigger assholes. Teachers aren't supposed to beat students, but what's wrong with some creative discipline to get a point across? A harmless piece of tape, and the kid had a choice, but people like haymitch go fucking ballistic like their kid was hit with a baseball bat.
 

grusse

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2010
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Typical dumb ass parent who likes the school to baby sit his kid every day, but doesn't address the issue of why his kid need disciplining that the parents refuse to give or teaches kids to respect others and obey authority.

I've talked to teachers who take incredible abuse from kids because students know they can't be touched and their stupid parents will always back the kid no matter what. Do any parents ever ask why their darling are so abusive and rude to teachers rather than always jump to the defence of little terrorist Johnny?

The reason there are so many kids bullying and generally behaving like assholes is because the parents are even bigger assholes. Teachers aren't supposed to beat students, but what's wrong with some creative discipline to get a point across? A harmless piece of tape, and the kid had a choice, but people like haymitch go fucking ballistic like their kid was hit with a baseball bat.


tru dat, CT
 
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