Terrorists Kill at least 140 in Paris
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This is guerrilla warfare and impossible to stop.
These are soft targets impossible to protect.
It's the price we pay for having an open society, it isn't because we bring in refugees and immigrants.
Guys like Tito, Hussein, Ghaddaffi, and Assad; and the regimes they led usually kept a lid on extremists by being more extreme. The West decided they knew better, interferred and now we've created a hydra that can strike any where any time. Well done Bush & Co.
I fear the result, eventually will be more spying on the people by governments, not less, and fewer freedoms. It's the way the world has to go because international terrorism will be with us forever, and it isn't just about religion, race, or culture; l think it's more about the dysfunctional people that are being raised.
These are soft targets impossible to protect.
It's the price we pay for having an open society, it isn't because we bring in refugees and immigrants.
Guys like Tito, Hussein, Ghaddaffi, and Assad; and the regimes they led usually kept a lid on extremists by being more extreme. The West decided they knew better, interferred and now we've created a hydra that can strike any where any time. Well done Bush & Co.
I fear the result, eventually will be more spying on the people by governments, not less, and fewer freedoms. It's the way the world has to go because international terrorism will be with us forever, and it isn't just about religion, race, or culture; l think it's more about the dysfunctional people that are being raised.
Even if the US pulled out eveywhere the terrorism would continue.
ISIS is a death cult that revels in creating torture porn and basks in the carnage they create. They are psychopaths and misfits. They will always want to create more and better shocking videos and get more press. Like a petulant child they will do anything to get attention. There is no bad press for these guys. The more vile their actions the more attention they get.
ISIS is a death cult that revels in creating torture porn and basks in the carnage they create. They are psychopaths and misfits. They will always want to create more and better shocking videos and get more press. Like a petulant child they will do anything to get attention. There is no bad press for these guys. The more vile their actions the more attention they get.
It was on the news this morning one of the killed terrorist recently was an immigrant I believe came in through Greece. Poland has closed its borders and is not taking any refugees with out a guarantee of safety which pretty much is impossible.
It really is a fucking mess, it really is, Paris France has struggled with this for years, the police claim to have thwarted five attacks since a major incident ten months ago.
A buddy from work I expect to talk to him tomorrow is just coming back from Europe he has family in Hungary and friends in Sweden. Listening to him talk about the immigrants they don't want them they don't fucking want them, and most of them according to him are migrants of opportunity not refugees.
Gwynne Dyer smarter then I ever will be says ignore ISSIS and it will go away.
I have very strong feelings about this not good actually people have the right to be safe and go about there life, countries have to protect there citizens, at all costs I think its a universal right to protect your self. And a lot of people are saying the immigrants are bad news not refugees at all,
surely there are some good people in there, desperate people in there trying for a better life. but well like I said you we have the right to protect our self, and it was posted on the news, one of them a recent refugee.
I'm not sure what the answer it is above my pay grade, but I for one would not take any immigrants refugees migrants whatever, with out a certain assurance of safety, a reasonable assurance of safety, and if you look at all the shit the French people have had to endure, well
It really is a fucking mess, it really is, Paris France has struggled with this for years, the police claim to have thwarted five attacks since a major incident ten months ago.
A buddy from work I expect to talk to him tomorrow is just coming back from Europe he has family in Hungary and friends in Sweden. Listening to him talk about the immigrants they don't want them they don't fucking want them, and most of them according to him are migrants of opportunity not refugees.
Gwynne Dyer smarter then I ever will be says ignore ISSIS and it will go away.
I have very strong feelings about this not good actually people have the right to be safe and go about there life, countries have to protect there citizens, at all costs I think its a universal right to protect your self. And a lot of people are saying the immigrants are bad news not refugees at all,
surely there are some good people in there, desperate people in there trying for a better life. but well like I said you we have the right to protect our self, and it was posted on the news, one of them a recent refugee.
I'm not sure what the answer it is above my pay grade, but I for one would not take any immigrants refugees migrants whatever, with out a certain assurance of safety, a reasonable assurance of safety, and if you look at all the shit the French people have had to endure, well
The government should reevaluate and reconsider accepting refugees like what Poland just announced. There is just no knowing if these refugees are real or just trying to penetrate into this country and create havoc later on. I am really worried.
All that he should say was that terrorism should be fought and that the government will reevaluate Canada's role.
He projected weakness and displayed exactly what I and many others feared. That he's just not ready.
Charlie Hebdo was at best a wake up call. 11/13 may change Europe's approach.
Don't forget that same day the terrorists attacked a Jewish supermarket in Paris. Easy to forget those victims. They were Jews.
All tourism should be stopped as well without full security checks, with this kind of argument.
But then, what do you do with all of the potential domestic terrorists? Lock up all young men from the age of 18 to 30, just in case?
It is what is called a "wicked problem," which requires more creative and carefully thought through solutions than brute (military) force and shutting the doors. Not that there isn't a role for special forces infiltration into troubled areas. Though I'm generally against military intervention, there are circumstances where surgical strikes are probably the most effective solution. But, we also need to attack the causes of extremism and understand why people are driven to adopt extremist points-of-view. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, loving people who should not be associated with a small group of extremists using the Muslim label. We should not be becoming exclusionary because of that, as that provides fertile ground for dissent and extremism. I know this next comment will be met with derision by some, but love, acceptance and provision of true economic opportunity would go a long way to limit the environment for extremism. And we need to work really hard at understanding them (though even this wording suggests they are some 'other', which is a dangerous way to think about this). Sybian and others are right. They, or some of them, do think very differently than us, but they are also human and fundamentally are the same as us. So, we need to work at understanding how and why they think like that... and be non-judgemental in that process. They see extremism on the part of the West as well. We need to see and understand their point-of-view, in the process of finding a solution to this.
Would 9/11 have happened if the US didn't have military stationed in Saudi Arabia and other parts of the Middle East?
We are also moving into a different era of warfare. Drones, cyberwarfare and economic warfare. Control of water supply will also become a weapon. Creation of cyborgs (the implantation of devices into humans to enhance their capabilities rather than robots). Some of this is already happening. Is the relatively low price of oil just market forces at play, or is it a tool whereby prices have been manipulated towards other ends?
My heart goes out to the French people and all those affected by this. I have co-editors and a co-author living in Paris and outside of Paris. I haven't heard yet whether they have been affected or not. I was in Paris just on a year ago for a speaking gig, though no-where near where any of the attacks took place, so have some tenuous connection with the city.
...and student visas and vacationers and...?
The refugees are generally refugees. If you're worrying about the 0.01% that might be up to no good why do you think the refugee channel is the only way they get in?
While we're at it, shall we also install metal detectors and bomb-sniffing dogs at every restaurant and mall, etc.?
Tell that to the families of.....
Cpl. Nathan Cirillo and Warrant Officer Patrice Vincent
That was only a pin prick
Michael Zehaf-Bibeau was a drug-addicted, homeless man, born in Canada. He spent a number of years fighting drug addiction and homelessness, and there were questions over his mental health.
He was trying to get a Canadian passport to go to fight with ISIS.
Closing the borders and stopping refugees would have done NOTHING to stop this murder.
Couture-Rouleau was a francophone Canadian who converted to Islam. He was known to the RCMP and being monitored because of his extremist beliefs. His passport had been revoked. His father had called the police about him, and on one occasion had taken him to hospital for psychiatric care. He was released the next day.
Closing the borders to refugees would have done NOTHING to stop this murder, which is best described as a criminal act rather than an act of terrorism. He was influenced by radical teachings, but that in itself does not make it an act of terrorism.
Those murders had nothing to do with immigration policy or allowing in refugees. The deaths of those fine men should not be linked to the question of refugee policy. It is irrelevant.
This was a failure of our mental health system. That is what should be addressed. It appeared that neither fell into the definition of mental illness and therefore could receive appropriate treatment, but their actions suggest that there was some element of mental illness involved. How do we define mental illness... or wellness, and how do we provide support to those who need it. Those are relevant questions in the case of the murders of these two gentlemen. Immigration and refugee policy has nothing to do with it.
On a related note, how many problems were created by the closure of Riverview Hospital in 2012? And did it in fact result in greater costs in other parts of the health and social support system?
Lo-ki..You and I have always gotten along allright, and I believe we always will.
I see your point, that the two execution style murders were based in the realm of a terrorist act...Inspired by events overseas, that were twisted into his world of self righteous motives.
Having said that..Gandalf is right...Couture-Rouleau was a homegrown problem....He was silent about his intentions, acted alone, and was fairly capable.
I have done several gigs both here and abroad, with private security, and protection of Officials, both Government and Civilian.....An individual like that, is every Body Gaurds absolute nightmare.
There is no reason, or reasonable warnings what he is capable of....There may be some intelligence about his possible intentions, and his face and profile may have been broadcast to the appropriate security teams..But they strike with pin point accurate intentions, without a timeline available to security teams.
Our training was to deal with the attack, on a running second, by second basis of defence.
The outcome is usually the same...There is an attack, suppression defence is established...Possible targets are protected... the Perp. is confronted, then he dies...The only variable is who dies with them ,and how many.
I see your point, that the two execution style murders were based in the realm of a terrorist act...Inspired by events overseas, that were twisted into his world of self righteous motives.
Having said that..Gandalf is right...Couture-Rouleau was a homegrown problem....He was silent about his intentions, acted alone, and was fairly capable.
I have done several gigs both here and abroad, with private security, and protection of Officials, both Government and Civilian.....An individual like that, is every Body Gaurds absolute nightmare.
There is no reason, or reasonable warnings what he is capable of....There may be some intelligence about his possible intentions, and his face and profile may have been broadcast to the appropriate security teams..But they strike with pin point accurate intentions, without a timeline available to security teams.
Our training was to deal with the attack, on a running second, by second basis of defence.
The outcome is usually the same...There is an attack, suppression defence is established...Possible targets are protected... the Perp. is confronted, then he dies...The only variable is who dies with them ,and how many.
sybian and hornygandolf
Thank you for both of your excellent responses
Having said that...in 1970 while living in Montreal during the October crisis with the FLQ... cars and mailboxes were being blown up on a regular bases.
As a teenager, I watched soldiers and thanks rolling down our streets and a 9pm curfew.
I just hope that our PM today will have the guts to say..."Just Watch me"
Thank you for both of your excellent responses
Having said that...in 1970 while living in Montreal during the October crisis with the FLQ... cars and mailboxes were being blown up on a regular bases.
As a teenager, I watched soldiers and thanks rolling down our streets and a 9pm curfew.
I just hope that our PM today will have the guts to say..."Just Watch me"
I understand where you are coming from based on your experience growing up.
It is a "wicked problem" (I teach about these), that requires a carefully thought-through solution.
Extremism in this sense has come in, in part, via the internet. Closing borders would do nothing. FLQ in Quebec was also a home-grown incident. And closing the internet borders would put us into a similar place as China or North Korea, or other countries with limitations on internet access.
The only terrorist incident I grew up with was the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland, and that was perpetrated by agents of the very country that is now the victim of the latest attacks.
It is a "wicked problem" (I teach about these), that requires a carefully thought-through solution.
Extremism in this sense has come in, in part, via the internet. Closing borders would do nothing. FLQ in Quebec was also a home-grown incident. And closing the internet borders would put us into a similar place as China or North Korea, or other countries with limitations on internet access.
The only terrorist incident I grew up with was the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland, and that was perpetrated by agents of the very country that is now the victim of the latest attacks.
A lot of these ISIS pricks are home grown losers looking for their own little Jihadi claim to fame.
The Brits and US sent in a drone strike to take out British citizen John Jihadi in the past few days.
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Having said that, this is a terrible event no matter where these ISIS are from.
Thoughts and prayers for Paris and France
The Brits and US sent in a drone strike to take out British citizen John Jihadi in the past few days.
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Having said that, this is a terrible event no matter where these ISIS are from.
Thoughts and prayers for Paris and France
This is fundamentally a clash of ideology between the West and the extremist of the Middle East. The West claims they are doing all they can to fight the extremists and yet inexplicably so with the Saudis as one of their allies. A lot of the most extreme ideals come from the Saudis. They are also the chief financier of terrorist activities and recruitment as well as being the most oppressed country there. Until the West stop treating the Saudis with kids glove, the likes of the Taliban or ISIS will keep flourishing. You can eliminate one but just as quickly another will rise in its place. If I'm not mistaken the response to 9/11 and every subsequent drone strike serve as the most effective advertisement for the recruitment of new jihadists, far greater than any teachings. Even if we eliminate all the extremists, we can't kill an ideology. I don't have a crystal ball to see how this will resolve itself but I do know the cycle of violence will continue for sometime. We could live in a police state but will that truly makes us any safer? The likes of Lo-ki seem to think so. Me, I'm not so sure. The question we need to ask ourselves is how much civil liberties are we willing to sacrifice to be at best, marginally safer?
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I really enjoy watching Bill Maher's round table discussion and PVR it for review over coffee in the mornings. This is the latest one which discusses France, ISIS etc.
I especially liked the comment about the US being the Middle East Policeman with 5,000,000 armed soldiers from all around the Persian Gulf (Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc etc) who are not leading the fight vs ISIS.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/11/14/bill_maher_why_do_they_hate_us.html
I especially liked the comment about the US being the Middle East Policeman with 5,000,000 armed soldiers from all around the Persian Gulf (Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc etc) who are not leading the fight vs ISIS.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/11/14/bill_maher_why_do_they_hate_us.html
How can you stop someone who is willing to die, make that EAGER to die?
The actual foot soldiers of ISIS, the ones who did the shooting, they can be neutralised. But there will always be more. They are puppets on a string. It is the puppet masters, the ones pulling the strings, they need to be taken out.
The Wahabbis have been doing this crap since the late 1700s, killing everyone who does not follow their warped vision of Islam. They actively try to rewrite the history of Islam to make it conform to their version. They have destroyed valuable, irreplacable manuscripts from only a few years after the death of their prophet, they destroy mosques and historic monuments, anything that contradicts their version of history.
Their are two pillars of Islam:the actual writings of the prophet, what we call the Koran, and the body of wisdom written down by scholars since his passing. The Wahabbis murder scholars they don't like. They burn libraries. They are monsters destroying their own people.
Of course Christianity has its own parallel, look up the Albigensian Crusades sometime. The Catholic church was just as bad as the Wahabbis. Mary Queen of Scots had non Catholics skinned alive and hung from posts around London. So all those self righteous Christians can shut the fiuck up cause they are not much better.
The actual foot soldiers of ISIS, the ones who did the shooting, they can be neutralised. But there will always be more. They are puppets on a string. It is the puppet masters, the ones pulling the strings, they need to be taken out.
The Wahabbis have been doing this crap since the late 1700s, killing everyone who does not follow their warped vision of Islam. They actively try to rewrite the history of Islam to make it conform to their version. They have destroyed valuable, irreplacable manuscripts from only a few years after the death of their prophet, they destroy mosques and historic monuments, anything that contradicts their version of history.
Their are two pillars of Islam:the actual writings of the prophet, what we call the Koran, and the body of wisdom written down by scholars since his passing. The Wahabbis murder scholars they don't like. They burn libraries. They are monsters destroying their own people.
Of course Christianity has its own parallel, look up the Albigensian Crusades sometime. The Catholic church was just as bad as the Wahabbis. Mary Queen of Scots had non Catholics skinned alive and hung from posts around London. So all those self righteous Christians can shut the fiuck up cause they are not much better.
But for the actions of the Security Officers at the gates of the Soccer Stadium, the death toll would have been much greater.
At least one of the terrorists had a ticket to the Soccer game and was stopped by the Security Officers. The terrorist and his two comrades blew themselves up outside of the stadium instead of inside the stadium.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/paris-update-what-we-know-so-far-about-terrorist-attacks-1.2658998
Saddam Hussein and Saudi Arabia in 2002 had schemes where a "Martyr" would ensure a large cheque to his family upon his death. http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Se...ia-sets-aside-50M-for-martyrs/40151018390895/ It doesn't surprise me that the terrorists are still able to recruit desperate people with promises that their families would be cared for.
Since I posted the above, the police have identified most of the terrorists and many of their assistants. Most of the terrorists were French or Belgium born and lived in Belgium around the Saudi Arabian financed Madrases in Antwerp and in the Brussels neighborhood of Molenbeek. http://islamineurope.blogspot.ca/2009/08/antwerp-report-on-extremist-mosques-and.html
The "Refugee" who passed through Greece and Serbia on his way to his appointment with death is looking very much like a "Returnee" as Molenbeek is one of the prime recruiting areas for ISIS.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/french-...n-syria-as-police-hunt-for-attacker-1.2659208
At least one of the terrorists had a ticket to the Soccer game and was stopped by the Security Officers. The terrorist and his two comrades blew themselves up outside of the stadium instead of inside the stadium.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/paris-update-what-we-know-so-far-about-terrorist-attacks-1.2658998
So, definitely not refugees. Doubtful if the French Resident was an immigrant. An Syrian, an Saudi and an Egyptian identified by their passports. All, except the French Resident, "Tourists" arriving legally in France. It may be that their assembly point was in Belgium in Brussels
Saddam Hussein and Saudi Arabia in 2002 had schemes where a "Martyr" would ensure a large cheque to his family upon his death. http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Se...ia-sets-aside-50M-for-martyrs/40151018390895/ It doesn't surprise me that the terrorists are still able to recruit desperate people with promises that their families would be cared for.
Since I posted the above, the police have identified most of the terrorists and many of their assistants. Most of the terrorists were French or Belgium born and lived in Belgium around the Saudi Arabian financed Madrases in Antwerp and in the Brussels neighborhood of Molenbeek. http://islamineurope.blogspot.ca/2009/08/antwerp-report-on-extremist-mosques-and.html
The "Refugee" who passed through Greece and Serbia on his way to his appointment with death is looking very much like a "Returnee" as Molenbeek is one of the prime recruiting areas for ISIS.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/french-...n-syria-as-police-hunt-for-attacker-1.2659208
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you said,
your own words defeat your position
the article said,
this is one of the principal ways the syrian refugees enter the euro union - through greece. and surely you remember the media frenzy from a month ago about syrian refugees and the little boy drowning off a greek island...
your own words defeat your position
I agree with everything you state except the last line.
Jews are well respected and in high ranking positions, what makes you say they are easy to forget?
When one Jew is killed Israel retaliates with killing 100 Arabs, they sure know how to take revenge.
