Carman Fox

Prostitution a victimless crime?

Bootsy

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If your really concerned with helping this industry out, donate money to non-profits that aid sex trafficked, and underage girls. Donate to womens shelters, AIDS Vancouver Island, programs that are educating women in 3rd world countries etc....help the girls that really need it. There is such a dark side of this business, and it would be such a benefit if all of us debating if indoor sex workers are victims, actually put money where our mouth is and helped the REAL victims of this industry and of mankind. Sex slaves. They will always exsist but one girl getting saved and getting an education could change a village or maybe the world for the better.
But it's a hell of a lot easier to be concerned and all indignant online than it is to really mean it enough to do something.

For those who pay for sex, I think we can justify anything to let us continue doing this at the end of the day.

Ask the SPs, they'd have a different answer if this was a victimless "crime", ask the wives or kids if they found out, they'd have a different answer too.
 

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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I agree with the post mentioning that many other jobs are hard on the soul.

I know a few nurses who have become addicted to drugs they originally took to combat long hours, make them more insensitive to the problems on the job, and sometimes to endure pain of previous back injuries. Several nurses I know who are no longer able to work seem to have developed mental illnesses...whether they already had mental illness before, or developed this during, who knows? Nursing is an honoured profession and we only see the bright and heroic side of their lives. Has anyone done a documentary on what they endure, for roughly $32,000 per year?

As to whether prostitution causes drug addiction, I have to wonder if these women you are referring to were in any other job: waitressing, or bar tending, or real estate agent, would they be drug addicts? Probably. The tendency toward drug addiction can be heavily influenced by having a previously existing mental illness, like bi-polar disorder, ADD, and the like.

I certainly have known many waitresses at clubs to snort coke in the bathroom on breaks, and many of these women never quit waitressing; they continue until they are too old to stand. Real estate agents? I know a good many of these and they can party hard. Does being a real estate agent contribute to drug addiction? How about flight attendants? Women who are hired to look pretty and point in different directions of the cabin during the pre-flight demo, and then walk around serving drinks (and pseudo food). I grew up babysitting for many of these women and they were pretty wild, too; even back in the sixties and seventies. Do you know how many flight attendants and real estate agents end up in rehab?

Why is it when we include sex in the qualifications for the job, it suddenly becomes a shameful and demeaning profession? What is wrong with good old sex, when the participant is a consenting adult?

I have met women in the biz who hate what they do, and it shows. They feel ashamed because their sexual history has been filled with abuse before they got into the industry. Drug abuse and self loathing were already in place long before they hit their twenties.
Not all abused women become prostitutes. Some of these women become nurses and real estate agents and flight attendants, (and many other careers); these are the ones who are capable of showing up for a shift; however, many of these abused women turn to prostitution because they can work when they are feeling well and take time off when things get bad. There is a co-relation between abuse and mental illness.

I have met a good many women who love the biz and treat their bodies with respect. They also demand respect from their clients. They squirrel away the money and invest well. They may never leave this business because it is convenient for them, even if they are working a day job. Why is it ok to work as a waitress until you are seventy, but not as a prostitute? Even Xaviera Hollander, who once averred that working as a prostitute past your thirties meant you were some kind of loser, has reversed her stance. (maybe because she is now in her seventies?)

Blowing the money. Is there a difference between a prostitute who fritters her money away, from any other woman (or man) in any other career? When you pay your realtor her percentage are you sure she is not going to party for a weekend and blow a lot of that up her nose? Is it your problem? How about a lawyer? I once had a client who was a lawyer and he lost his home and his family due to a substance abuse problem. Did his career as a criminal defense lawyer contribute to that? Should his clients feel bad for hiring him and paying him the money that allowed him to live that lifestyle?

I enjoyed the thirty odd years I spent working on and off as a prostitute. It was, to me, more like an entertainment industry. I loved dressing up and really enjoyed the interaction. I was never into drugs, or drinking, or even smoking and almost always had another job. I could choose my clients and I chose well. I have to say that during a financial crisis in my life this biz was a saviour; I would never have gotten by without it. During that crisis I met other women in the biz who were going through the same crap. Women who wanted to be with their children and not have to farm them to daycare while they worked a low wage job trying to get back on their feet. I also met young women who did put themselves through university and went on to other careers...you don't hear those stories because they don't take out a page in the Sun to announce it...they just, quietly, leave.

It always surprises me that the very men who are using the services of a prostitute will say, when mentioning a woman who has left the industry: "Good on her" or words to that affect. It is a very good indicator of the state of a man's own sexual/mental health.

Consensual sex is not bad!

In the end, with any job or career, the bottom line is: I have something that will benefit you and you have something that will benefit me.
mimi

I am closer to this subject than I care to expose myself to and can tell you that you are not too far off the mark.

CEO's of some of BC's biggest firms, lawyers, CA's, even Psychiatrists I known have been known to have seen other Psychiatrists about their substance issue or their alcohol issue or their addiction to pharmaceuticals or they are flat out crazy.

Sure I have known some SP's who have been "on something" whether its legal or illegal it has no difference. Every "industry" has its own fallout from stress and being a SP would surely count as one stressful industry.
 

Dgodus

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I was told outright stress on one account, the other lady said she got sick (normal sickness bad flu stuff) and combined with being stressed = poof.

but really

(big amazing curls that are a gorgeous auburn color)
I've forgotten what was being talked about!
 

Justin Beaver

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What a great thread and lots of very insightful posts from the SPs on here who have walked the walk and can talk from experience.

I belive,as Mimi and BC babe have stated,that sex work does'nt turn women into drug addicts and send them down the path to ruin.I think that the women who are in these bad situations would end up with messed up lives no matter what career path they choose but by choosing prostitution they can hasten the damage with the money and the lack of self-respect if they're in the industry for the wrong reasons,like feeding addictions.
I'd imagine a lot of their personal anguish is the fallout from years of personal demons and bad choices that got them to the point of having to take on a job that they're really not emotionally suited for as a last resort.

Personally,I was pretty apprehensive when I first started trying this as the only previous encounters I had with people in this industry were SPs that I had known briefly on a personal level and they were definitely in the messed up lives camp.
Thankfully,I found PERP and did some research and it sounds like both parties are usually having a good time at this so I thought I'd give it a go.
To date almost all my encounters have been at local agencies and pretty much all the women I've met seem to be enjoying the job and have their lives on the right track.A lot of them are students that are currently taking classes and one or two have graduated and moved on to their new careers which is really nice to see.
When you're seeing women like that,its' a good feeling to know that you're contributing and helping them get started out in their journey through life as opposed to seeing the wrong kind and enabling them in a downward slide to a bad end.
 

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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Many providers have extensions. During the past year I've met two who sport them because their hair has thinned/been lost due to stress.....

All roses huh?
Choose my words out of context? You choose to reconfigure my quote for a weak LOL? Whatever.

To some this is a serious thread about the people we have personal relations with and some we actually care about. It hits home when you see things . . . .

All I know is it is not only SP's whom I have known who have had substance or alcohol issues. I have known many a professional (lawyer, engineer, MD, etc) who has thrown it away by not being able to get it under control and carry on with their professional lives.

Might happen to you one day too, think about it. Hopefully someone may care enough to help you.

I know one guy who use to work in the Arctic who was a go to expert and was relied upon during the day to give his expertise. Now he is 60 and looks 85 and lives in a trailer without any income. All drugs and alcohol related issues.
 

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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Hate to break it to you but some of your favorites are managed by a pimp.
Interesting when you have this sort of info thrown in front of you that was presented by another SP. And I said "nah". :nod:
 

the old maxx50

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Dec 22, 2010
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I think we have talked about a number of the different aspects of prostitution , the good the bad and the ugly and it true .. it is all there in some respect and many of the women experience part or all of it.

Chose has a big part of where we find our selves .. but some time those choses are taken away by the circumstances that people live through .

I know when i first gone in to this .. I real had not planed to .. for years i has seen the SW out side the BC loto offices or just at the end of the block .. and heard about the girl that were killed or missing .. and i never though i would se an escort .. even though it intrigued me .. I think the movies did that .. Because i never knew any one in the business ..

Then I started going to the local strip clubs in Victoria .. and getting exposed to some of the attitudes and seeing first had what was going on , Of course i was just an observer .. Then I met some one a part time dancer .. which i became friends with .. and helped out some times .. there was no sex involved .. I actually think I missed an opportunity to have my first experience But know her is what lead me in to the escort world .. I actually though she had gone into working as an escort .. and was the white knight that was going to save her ... That is why I saw my first escort because i thought it was her from the pictures I saw on line ..

Admittedly i had already been looking at escorts on line for a few years .. trying to get up the nerve to see one .. so when it turned out it was not her I was revealed ,, and also i have crossed over so i end up having sex. Then I did it again a month later ... That was when I first saw that drugs were a problem the girl i saw was high on something .. and I left before my 2 hrs were up .. But I still saw another girl 1 month later and then a couple a month.

But that was just the start of a few yrs of education on the girls in the escort business .. and i know i did not see any thing near the worst ..

By being a sugar daddy to an older escort that had been in the business for a number of yrs i heard about the life and i meet so of the people in it .. after that ended i was back at it with escorts again stronger then before .. But kind of stuck with a few i knew so i still insulated my self from the worst even those those i saw ,, used drugs i did not see it as that bad .. I just hoped they would get off them be for it killed them ..

Then later I stepped in deeper and became a driver ,, and saw a little more .. the good and the bad but nothing very ugly just concerning I saw a few women go into a downward spiral all ready on it well before i saw them .. and i learned more about who the girls were , their lives and who the clients were.
But I still saw it as a chose the girls were making . No one was forcing any one i knew to do any thing they did not want to do ..

Now a few more years later .. i have a few friends that i meet in the business ,, that have stopped being escorts for a number of reasons ,, and still know some that are struggling to get out of the business .. Also i know a few that still want to work as escort or SP .s ..

If you ask me if i think they are victims ,, I don;t know only they can answer that question .. I personally am not all way that pleased with my self for see them just because i wanted sex .. and was willing to pay what they asked ... But on the other had I know i helped those i know .. in any way i can .. and it had nothing to do with getting payed back with sex .. because i never asked or expected to be payed back ..

Are these reports accurate ? Only for some cases .. but not for the whole business . Yes maybe some of the people i have met all most fit the profiles wrote about . and at the same time i don't see them that way ..

..
 

Dgodus

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Choose my words out of context? You choose to reconfigure my quote for a weak LOL? Whatever.

To some this is a serious thread about the people we have personal relations with and some we actually care about. It hits home when you see things . . . .

All I know is it is not only SP's whom I have known who have had substance or alcohol issues. I have known many a professional (lawyer, engineer, MD, etc) who has thrown it away by not being able to get it under control and carry on with their professional lives.

Might happen to you one day too, think about it. Hopefully someone may care enough to help you.

I know one guy who use to work in the Arctic who was a go to expert and was relied upon during the day to give his expertise. Now he is 60 and looks 85 and lives in a trailer without any income. All drugs and alcohol related issues.
Excuse me?! Where is the joke I made? Please point it out I'm ever so curious. In quoting you I wasn't responding to anything you said, the little bit I quoted was something which reminded me about what I'd seen.

How much drug use/abuse have you taken part in not just seen? Because I've already done it, I don't need to just see it. Even though I'm privy to seeing people abuse themselves everyday, you see we live/work in a camp hundreds of miles away from our homes (some thousands, some like myself don't actually even have our own address anymore). Those with families don't see them for weeks at a time, the divorce rate in this occupation is higher than the national average. The job is also unhealthy and dangerous (twice in the past year have I come really close to being life altering injure potentially killed and through no fault of my own). On top of it all people in my position are "overpaid" because we're just dumb electricians, pipefitters, roughnecks. But yet everyones concern is for the "professionals" in society, people like myself are easily replaceable and society in general could give a shit about us.

No sir I've seen it plenty and probably more than you.

And go fuck yourself for the insinuation I don't care about the people I see. Unfortunately I tend to care to a fault, in fact it's already caused me problems in that I'd give up my time and deal with the stress of a lady calling/txting frequently to rant and rave about clients/her job. That concern was not returned....
 

badbadboy

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Nov 2, 2006
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Excuse me?! Where is the joke I made? Please point it out I'm ever so curious. In quoting you I wasn't responding to anything you said, the little bit I quoted was something which reminded me about what I'd seen.

How much drug use/abuse have you taken part in not just seen? Because I've already done it, I don't need to just see it. Even though I'm privy to seeing people abuse themselves everyday, you see we live/work in a camp hundreds of miles away from our homes (some thousands, some like myself don't actually even have our own address anymore). Those with families don't see them for weeks at a time, the divorce rate in this occupation is higher than the national average. The job is also unhealthy and dangerous (twice in the past year have I come really close to being life altering injure potentially killed and through no fault of my own). On top of it all people in my position are "overpaid" because we're just dumb electricians, pipefitters, roughnecks. But yet everyones concern is for the "professionals" in society, people like myself are easily replaceable and society in general could give a shit about us.

No sir I've seen it plenty and probably more than you.

And go fuck yourself for the insinuation I don't care about the people I see. Unfortunately I tend to care to a fault, in fact it's already caused me problems in that I'd give up my time and deal with the stress of a lady calling/txting frequently to rant and rave about clients/her job. That concern was not returned....
You are so all over the map that I really don't know where to start.

You posted a smart ass response about hair extensions and then its convoluted into the above wall of words and tell me to go fuck myself?

In response to your claim. I have seen plenty and that's all you need to know.

:rolleyes:
 

jnewton

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Aug 9, 2010
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I've said that. I've said it about prostitutes who have 'retired', but I've said it about many other people from other walks of life. Sometimes your job consumes you, and only others can see it. When a job, any job, robs you of free time, family and friends - just work and only work, then it is time to get out.

When someone is a high-income earner, they become accustomed to that income and cannot imagine themselves without it. They then become a chained to their job and feel enslaved and bitter.

So yeah, I've said it, but I don't think that it reflects poorly on my own mental health.
Agreed. I just said that to a gal I care about on another board. She quietly retired because she had reached most of her goals and she was starting to have emotional problems from the work. I congratulated her because I knew SHE wanted to get out, not because I was ashamed, either for her or myself. I would have done so if she was selling refrigerators to Eskimos, had reached her goals, and was starting to have emotional problems from her work. She was ready to move on and I am happy for her.
 
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DavidMR

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Now that I have discovered the gem that is Alberta I am quite satisfied. I love working there! Vancouver is fun, but Alberta is something else entirely, sorry Van boys but the Albertans have won my heart.
Didn't realize you had moved, ... when was that?
 

DavidMR

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The Ugly: When I was 16 a messed up kid a high school drop out pretty much I met at the time being young and not knowing any better a wonderful man 11 years older than me. I met him in jail while visiting a friend. I fell in love with this man (what I thought was love at 16. When I was 17 me and this man went on a venture across Canada this man was a biker I would soon learn of his past and what he wanted me for. I will not tell the whole story I will make it short, it took us about 4 months to get to Nova Scotia from BC many stops along the way. What was it like in Nova Scotia well friendly funny caring people. But I never saw that I was pimped out by bikers I was high alot weed and coke to get rid of the feelings. I worked an underground brothel run by bikers. I was never abused or threatened. I will leave it at that, some girls were and some girls disappeared. ...
Susie, we have never met, but FWIW your personal story would tend to fit into the meme offered by some that women who work as SPs had a rough introduction to sex and that it probably involved exploiting older men and drugs.
 

badbadboy

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Those poor, overworked CEOs. I cannot tell you how tired I get of hearing that kind of thing.
Nice snip job on my post. If you had posted it in its entirety it would have shown that nobody is impervious to stress that can lead to drug, alcohol abuse and sometimes a psych admission.

But then again, as our resident socialist Troll bites on the smallest of baits so I shouldn't be too surprised by your post.
 
B

BrokeBastard

I know a few nurses who have become addicted to drugs they originally took to combat long hours, make them more insensitive to the problems on the job, and sometimes to endure pain of previous back injuries. Several nurses I know who are no longer able to work seem to have developed mental illnesses...whether they already had mental illness before, or developed this during, who knows? Nursing is an honoured profession and we only see the bright and heroic side of their lives. Has anyone done a documentary on what they endure, for roughly $32,000 per year?
Not to derail this thread but nurses get paid quite well in BC. With all the overtime some make over 100K a year. It's stressful but pays well.
 

susi

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@the Meat Market!!!lol
Susie, we have never met, but FWIW your personal story would tend to fit into the meme offered by some that women who work as SPs had a rough introduction to sex and that it probably involved exploiting older men and drugs.
just to be clear, you are quoting angie's story, not mine. i was a virgin until i was 18 years old, was never sexually abused and choose sex work on my own within a year of being deflowered, without drug influence. i worked for a wonderful madame in halifax who taught us what to do, even coming on calls with us for groups of men. i still call her at xmas time.

yes, it happens to some women. but not to the level they (the abolitionists quoted at the beginning) would have you believe. also, a 16 year old is not a sex worker. she is an exploited youth. any man exploiting a youth for sex, in or out of the sex industry, is committing a crime.

is exploitation of youth acceptable because i promote decrim? no. in fact with decrim we hope to be able to better identify youth at risk and prevent them from being exploited in the sex industry.

love susie
 
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