Hey HFS - The “American Conservative” endorses Kerry

timec

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Jul 7, 2004
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HFS – since you felt compelled to pull your Bush thread from yesterday, care to measure peckers in this one?

In its latest release, the “American Conservative” endorses Kerry for US President.

(selected article extracts):

There is little in John Kerry’s persona or platform that appeals to conservatives.

But this election is not about John Kerry. If he were to win, his dearth of charisma would likely ensure him a single term. He would face challenges from within his own party and a thwarting of his most expensive initiatives by a Republican Congress. Much of his presidency would be absorbed by trying to clean up the mess left to him in Iraq. He would be constrained by the swollen deficits and a ripe target for the next Republican nominee.

It is, instead, an election about the presidency of George W. Bush.

Bush has behaved like a caricature of what a right-wing president is supposed to be, and his continuation in office will discredit any sort of conservatism for generations. The launching of an invasion against a country that posed no threat to the U.S., the doling out of war profits and concessions to politically favored corporations, the financing of the war by ballooning the deficit to be passed on to the nation’s children, the ceaseless drive to cut taxes for those outside the middle class and working poor: it is as if Bush sought to resurrect every false 1960s-era left-wing cliché about predatory imperialism and turn it into administration policy. Add to this his nation-breaking immigration proposal—Bush has laid out a mad scheme to import immigrants to fill any job where the wage is so low that an American can’t be found to do it—and you have a presidency that combines imperialist Right and open-borders Left in a uniquely noxious cocktail.

If Kerry wins, this magazine will be in opposition from Inauguration Day forward. But the most important battles will take place within the Republican Party and the conservative movement. A Bush defeat will ignite a huge soul-searching within the rank-and-file of Republicandom: a quest to find out how and where the Bush presidency went wrong. And it is then that more traditional conservatives will have an audience to argue for a conservatism informed by the lessons of history, based in prudence and a sense of continuity with the American past—and to make that case without a powerful White House pulling in the opposite direction.

George W. Bush has come to embody a politics that is antithetical to almost any kind of thoughtful conservatism. His international policies have been based on the hopelessly naïve belief that foreign peoples are eager to be liberated by American armies—a notion more grounded in Leon Trotsky’s concept of global revolution than any sort of conservative statecraft.

This election is all about George W. Bush, and those issues are enough to render him unworthy of any conservative support.
 

luckydog71

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Timec, this may come as a surprise to you if you have read my posts, but I am not a Republican and I will not join the party. I am an independent and a conservative.

If this election was just on domestic issues, I would have a tough time voting for W. He is not a conservative and most Republicans are not conservative.

W supports corporate welfare. Kerry supports socialism and unions.

They both want to spend my money to support their favored groups. The U.S. airline industry is a perfect example. They used 9/11 as an excuse, but it hid the real problem, most of them are unable to run a business and they should suffer the consequences of badly run business, they go broke. The billions that the U.S. taxpayers gave to U.S. airlines was a waste of money. Unfortunately that is just one example; there are 1000’s more examples.

A split government yields the best conservative decisions. A Democrat in the White (Kerry, Clinton Carter, I don’t care) and a Republican house and senate creates a stalemate. Instead of spending my money they hold hearings on who got a BJ in the WH and what was the DNA on a stained dress.

The reverse also works and then they spend time arguing over why someone did not show up for National Guard duty 30 years ago.

It is only when you get one party in control like the last 4 years of W or the first 2 years of Clinton. Then they spend like drunken sailors. No offence intended towards drunken sailors.

This year domestic issues are almost irrelevant. I want the most hated, most feared guy we have and that is W. Mess with me and I will shove a missile up your ass and if I can’t find you I will do your uncle or your mother or your neighbor.

Can you just imagine the conversation between Ayatollah Khamenei (the leader of Iran) and OBL. “Don’t fuck with those crazy Americans, you bomb them and they will invade Iran. Just leave those bastards alone and you can set up all the camps you want.”
 

timec

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Jul 7, 2004
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Luckdog, with your points we’re in good shape – the US will have no further designs on invading any other countries… all world leaders now realize that, as you state “Don’t fuck with those crazy Americans”. Good then – we’ll get this Iraq thing out of the way and that’ll be it. It’s so clear when you put it that way – don’t know why I couldn’t see that before. Thanks for clarifying – I didn’t realize it was Hussien/Iraq that (plane) bombed the US – cause, that’s why you’re there, right?

You state Kerry supports socialism – do you view Canada as a socialist country?

You’ve lost me – re-read your post and decide if it might be a bit confusing to others to see if you’re in favor, or against, a split government (House vs. President).

HFS, c’mon – your own words… don’t make me search for them… you directly stated you were a fan of Bush. Point of the article has nothing to do with the ‘anyone but Bush theme’ – point of the article is that it’s highlighting a presumed bastion of the Conservative ‘Right’ coming out and endorsing Kerry – because as the article summarized “This election is all about George W. Bush, and those issues are enough to render him unworthy of any conservative support”.
 

luckydog71

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All I can say dirty uncle is wow.....if you are not an American and the language you use leads me to believe you are not, then you are the first non-American I heard that can summarize the US psyche. It does not sound like you support the mind set, but you at least understand it.

Timec, sorry if I was unclear, I try to make my points as clear as possible. I support split government.

I am voting for W and the Democrat in my district. I would vote for Senator Patty Murray as well, but she is such an idiot I can not bring myself to do it.

And I do think Canada has many socialist government programs:
Government health care; government car insurance; provincial equalization payments and the best one of all subsidies to areas like Nova Scotia that has 25% unemployment. Tell the unemployed to move and get a job.
 

timec

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Jul 7, 2004
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Dirty Uncle - New World Order? According to who? realpolitik – fawk man – talk about the reality of the day, that’s where the short sightedness you reference clearly shows.

The US invasion of Iraq has galvanized and increased a resistance to the real world order – I would agree with you that it has, as you state, “focused the nature of global relations for the next 20-30 years” (pick a number). In terms of those relations, you state that:

“Mid -East politics has now assumed its rightful importance in the global scheme of things. India, China, Russia, the rest of Europe all border this strategic area, which has huge, strategically important reserves of oil”.

Oil – of course, it’s all about the oil – exactly why the US is in the process of building all those long term military bases in Iraq.

Bush isn’t playing a TV President; unfortunately it’s all too real.

You ask:

“you want China or Russia or France to run that part of the world”?

No, no country, no single country should extend its Imperial reach for its own vested interests. Start with a true world coalition that reacts to real imminent threats… not a country, the US, that ignores international law when convenient and actively disparages the very process of law and agreements between nations as "irrelevant. (yes GA!).
 

BushPilot

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Grendleaxe, thank you. I thought all I'd get this evening was another "Luckydog spouts off in yet another, mine is bigger than yours, so fuck you and what are you going to do about it" political discussion. But you have answered his horseshit with a thoughtful, logical post. Thank you. and Luckydog, I hope the next time an Iraqi, whose parents your government killed because they happened to live in a country with lots of oil, and had the audacity to have a wedding near the Syrian border, decides to seek revenge on America, I sure as hope he ends up somewhere near your house.
 

The Lizard King

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"and Luckydog, I hope the next time an Iraqi, whose parents your government killed because they happened to live in a country with lots of oil, and had the audacity to have a wedding near the Syrian border, decides to seek revenge on America, I sure as hope he ends up somewhere near your house."

LMAO!!!! I was thinking exactly the same thing.
 

roadguy

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Oct 11, 2004
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Oh poor luckydog.
Let me share some information with you.
The reckless spending of GWB has created a debt like no other in American history.
The Japanese and Chinese fund half of the defecit through buying of American bonds
but that won't last. Everyone sees the writing on the wall for the American dollar.
It's going down.
Predictions by people that know say the Canadian greenback will be par within 2 years.
If you did some reading you would know that the Americans are going to hit the wall
in under three years. Why?
Because with debt and under funding of Social Security they have a small problem
of 53 trillion dollars. The baby boomers are turning 60.
Yes you read that right.
That doesn't include the personnal cosummer debt.
So you see all this hype about WMD and terrorists that didn't exist in Iraq are
a small diversion.
America will implode from within. A major economic crisis unequalled in our
lifetime.
No nation in the world has borrowed it's way to prosperity.
America will be not be the first.
Mr B has cut taxes to the rich as well as corporate tax.
Read the book "Running on Empty".
It's over.
No more having the American standard of living subsidized by borrowing money
from other nations.
When your dollar drops by about 25 percent, at least, foreign money coming
into your country will dry up.
No even GWB old friends the Saudies will help him out by investing in there
country because their billions will depreciate.
The party is over.
A vote for GWB will bring it about quicker.
Americans like tough talk when some other country is paying the price.
They don't like tough talk when directed at them.
Tough talk like, we need higher taxes, have to conserve fuel and governments have
to spend less.
You see Canadians don't like taxes any more than the Americans but we recognize
in the longrun we all benefit from medicare and other useful programs.
Every civilized country in the world has a medicare system.
Except the USA.
You defend your right to pay 600 dollars a month for medical coverage.
Have a nice day.
 

luckydog71

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BushPilot said:
Luckydog, I hope the next time an Iraqi..... decides to seek revenge on America, I sure as hope he ends up somewhere near your house.
Bushpilot and LK....so you have come full circle and you have become worse than what you hate Americans for....

So let me replay your logic....
- Someone of Middle Eastern decent attacked the US
- The US had no right to bombed anyone except the one who attacked the US

- I have a different political view than you do and I support what W has done
- Therefore my house (and I assume me in it) should be near the next attack.

Hell lizard king is close enough to my house, he would probably arm the attackers and help them sneak across the border.

Both of you are a hypocrites
 

BushPilot

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LuckyDog, your support of George W. Bush only makes you an idiot, but doesn't necessarily make me wish you to become the target of an Islamic revenge killing. What makes me say what I did was your attitude that the USA has the right to bomb innocent people as some fucked up form of revenge for what someone else did to you, as a means of showing them, as you say, "fuck with us and we'll shove a missile up your ass." I'm no hypocrite, and I won't cry for you should you ever fall victim of the cycle of violence that your government started, perpetuates, and you support wholeheartedly. I will however shed a tear for you innocent neighbours who will undoubtedly become collateral damage when you get yours.
 

luckydog71

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BP, I understand your anger with me for having a different point of view than you. I also understand you would not participate in a revenge strike against me, but you would stand back and cheer the one who does.

How does you cheering when a terrorist strikes the US different than my support for W.

I did not bomb anyone. All I did was have the audacity to have a different point of view than you.

That is what makes you a hypocrite.
 

roadguy

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Oct 11, 2004
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The people who attacked the USA as terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.
Why didn't the USA attack them.
I will tell you why GWB has them as close buddies and he has to tow the line
as they invest bullions in US and they supply gas.
So why not flex your biceps and attack a country that you have already made
up your mind to attack.
The Bin Laden family and the Busch family invest together in the Caryle Group.
The war on Iraq was illegal and unjustified.
The world knows it.
The only ones who seem to doubt that are millions in the good old USA.
There is a sucker born every minute
 

The Lizard King

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Jul 8, 2003
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"Bushpilot and LK....so you have come full circle and you have become worse than what you hate Americans for...."

Nope. Just don't agree that the U.S. had any right to invade a country without ties to anything directly related to the harming of your country. Justifying it as the need to remove a pain in the ass, who the U.S. CREATED in the first place, just doesn't cut it. I don't hate Americans, I dislike your country's politics and foreign policy

"So let me replay your logic....
- Someone of Middle Eastern decent attacked the US
- The US had no right to bombed anyone except the one who attacked the US"

Point one is obvious but they didn't do anything that any DECENT Middle Eastern aspires to do.
Point two. That's generally how it works. The Saudis bombed you with a little help from Iran. Ironic that one country owns approximately 15% of America, while the other is part of the reason the U.S. made Hussein anyway.

"- I have a different political view than you do and I support what W has done
- Therefore my house (and I assume me in it) should be near the next attack."

Point one. I think it's potentially more of a cultural position than point of view. The vast majority of Canadians disagree with Bush and his actions while, should he be re-elected, the American public would be clearly endorsing Bush and his actions.
Point two. IMO people using your thought process as to how to treat the rest of the world, deserves everything that's coming to them, and then some. Just my opinion though....

"Hell lizard king is close enough to my house, he would probably arm the attackers and help them sneak across the border."

They're having an easy enough time getting into your country without me and if I were to facilitate or encourage it, I would be as bad as you. It's really, really nice that you teach them to fly but perhaps next time, you'll teach them to land too.

"Both of you are a hypocrites"

Nope. I give you credit, at least you're consistent....consistently a moron.
 

BushPilot

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Apr 23, 2004
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LuckyDog, once again, I'd like to reiterate that you are an idiot. Not only for the reasons that I previously stated, but also for the fact that you totally lack reading comprehension skills. I never said that I would cheer anyone who harmed you. Unlike you, I don't see any point in any one person, or group of people, targeting another. I would not shed a tear for you if you were harmed, though, because it'd be a simple matter of reeping what you sow. You support the policies that have lead to the deaths of thousands of innocents because you feel the need to get some kind of revenge for a wrong committed against your country and feel that by doing so, you'll make an example to deter others who may wish to harm you. You fail to acknowledge the US governments foreign policy and the actions of the CIA throughout the world in provoking that wrong. While that doesn't excuse what nineteen people did on September 11th, it does give some insight into the greater problems. What you support, though, is the slaughter of innocents who had nothing to do with that tragedy in NYC and Washington. Now that doesn't make me a hyporcrite. Actually, I would argue that your stance makes YOU the hypocrite. Do us all a favour, go fuck yourself.
 

BushPilot

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LuckyDog, I'm no cheerleader. When I say that I hope that the pissed-off, victimized Iraqi who seeks revenge against the US finds his way to your house, I mean that it's better he blow you up than someone who is truly innocent. When you make comments that support a war against an enemy that you admit didn't provoke it, you contribute to the conditions that make such a thing happen. For this, you can't claim to be innocent of the crimes committed by your government. Your ignorant attitude exhibited by the following quote, "[m]ess with me and I will shove a missile up your ass and if I can’t find you I will do your uncle or your mother or your neighbor," is what makes you an idiot. Now that is the kind of quote that shows how class an act you are.

DDawg, you think I'm hostile? Fucking right I am. I don't like ignorance and greed. Those are the two most prominent qualities of the Bush administration. I'm hostile to them because they have taken that ignorance and greed and gone on to fuck up the world I live in, making it unsafe for me, my family, and my friends. For that, you better believe I'm hostile to the administration and it's supporters and apologists. I don't wish harm to anyone. I don't feel bad, though, when harm comes to those who invite it upon themselves. As far as I'm concerned, LuckyDog falls into that category.

Back to you LuckyDog, once again, go fuck yourself.
 

luckydog71

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BushPilot, I really want to end this string because I view you as a support of those who attacked the WTC.

You say all the right words but you enable those who want to attack Americans.

I hate those who would attack us with a passion. But they are committed to their cause as warped as it is.

You however are a coward. You “hope” someone else does your dirty work. You are the type of person who would do anything you could to assist my enemies. You would provide cover and finances for those who would attack the US.

You think I am not “truly innocent” because I disagree with your political beliefs.

I my country we are allowed to have our beliefs. And do you know what, as wrong headed as I believe the liberals are I would fight to the death for their right to express their opinion. If they are not free to express their misguided opinions then one day, I will be assaulted by a zealot like you, who is against anyone with a different opinion than theirs and believes “it's better he blow you up than someone who is truly innocent”.

Thank God, the United States of America has a constitution that protects me from people like you.

One more thought, I know that 95% of Americans do not tolerate idiots like you. Our brave young men and women have given their lives to defend our freedom of speech. I also know the majority of Canadians feel the same way. They don’t have to agree with me….they don’t even have to like me…but if the world thought like you there would be no place safe for people like me….

DDawgg – you are a true Canadian…I would stand at the door while you took a piss in a gay bar any day of the week.
 

BushPilot

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GrendleAxe, your post is once again calm, articulate, and truthful. I suppose my passion for the argument has led me to speak a bit more bluntly than I probably should have. Although I still stand by my positions, and don't concede anything to LuckyDog other than to say that he reads what I write and doesn't comprehend what is written, then responds to something other than I wrote. Either way, no good will come from my persisting in it. LuckyDog will not change his views or see his errors of thought and judgement any more than I'm going to concede that he is right to cheer, "shoving a missile up (innocent) asses." I will therefore bow out and leave the floor to you. From what I have seen of you on here, you will handle it with class. That's all for me tonight.
 
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