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Green Party & Liberal "Alliance"

Vroomfondel

Rear Admiral
Oct 27, 2006
39
0
6
The Pacific Rim
For the PERB members who are interested in environmental issues and Canadian politics, I refer you to the article below if you haven't already heard about it in today's news.

As someone who is both a tree-hugging flake and politically situated to the right of centre (yes, people like us do exist - a rare species known to some as "crunchy cons"), I was appalled and disgusted by Ms. May's perfidy. I hope electoral karma works its cosmic magic and punishes her and her party appropriately. The first time I read the news item I nearly puked up my bowl of organic granola with soy-milk and raspberries.

Cheers,

VF

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No Liberal will run against Elizabeth May: Dion
13/04/2007 4:36:53 PM

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Liberal Leader Stephane Dion and Elizabeth May of the Green Party have joined forces to try and defeat the Conservatives in a Nova Scotia riding.

Dion announced Friday in a joint news conference with May that he won't be running a candidate against the Green Party leader in the Central Nova riding currently held by Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay.

Dion said he is putting partisan politics aside and throwing his weight behind May, who will fight to win her party's first seat in the next election.

"We will offer to Canadians a gesture of cooperation in order to be sure that Canada will put together all its assets as a great nation," Dion said during a press conference.

Dion said the move served as "a golden opportunity" to show Canadians that the issues of environment and climate change are top priorities for the parties.

"We need exceptional solutions and that's the reason we're acting this way,'' he said in French.

Under the terms of the non-compete agreement, May has agreed not to run a candidate against Dion and will essentially endorse him as prime minister.

During the news conference May touted Dion as the answer to Canada's climate change struggles, saying she has worked closely with him and has become convinced he is the best choice to lead Canada.

"If Mr. Dion becomes the prime minister of Canada, I'm certain he will be acting so as to reach the targets of Kyoto. I'm also certain Mr. Harper will be doing the contrary. The crisis of climate change is an emergency. There's no time to waste," May said in French.

She downplayed the political dealings that may have taken place in the last few days, saying the two leaders exchanged half a dozen phone calls, but there was no "backroom discussions."

"This is not a large-scale merger of parties. This is an extraordinary expression of putting principal ahead of politics as usual."

May will need all the help she can get to beat MacKay -- a star MP hailing from a longtime Conservative stronghold.

In order to win she would have to pick up all the votes that went to the third-place Liberals in 2006 and half of the second-place NDP's votes, CP reports.

Criticism over deal

Human Resources Minister Monte Solberg criticized Dion saying the move was something his predecessors would never have done.

"I'm surprised to see ... (Dion's) first major electoral decision is to concede defeat,'' Solberg said on Friday.

"I sat in the House of Commons for a long time and battled every day with people like Jean Chretien -- someone who never backed away from a fight."

"It's an incredible admission from the once-proud leader of the Liberal party,'' Solberg said.

The Tory minister also said Dion needs to clarify to Canadians what aspects of the Green Party platform he is endorsing, such as the Green Party's insistence that Canada should abandon the Free Trade Agreement.

The Tories have been criticized themselves for siding with the Bloc Quebecois in order to pass the budget.

Solberg dismissed a suggestion that -- by his own logic -- that means the Conservatives could be accused of supporting Quebec independence.

"The Bloc Quebecois thinks it's in the interest of Quebec to support the Conservative budget and we agree with that. This is about Stephane Dion's leadership,'' Solberg said.

NDP Leader Jack Layton criticized the alliance at a press conference Friday calling it a backroom deal that was unfair to Canadian voters.

"It's surprising that Ms. May would be supporting a member of the Liberal cabinet who, during his tenure in that cabinet, presided over an increase of greenhouse gas emissions of over 30 per cent -- giving us the worst record in the industrialized world," said Layton. "Our party on the other hand... has actually got things moving."

"I have to say it's disappointing and somewhat surprising that Ms. May, as someone who professes to be someone who stands on principal, would so quickly slip into the muck of backroom wheeling and dealing, denying people choices in an election," said Layton.

The previously unheard of level of cooperation between two supposed rivals could generate benefits and disadvantages for both parties.

Many Greens are already unhappy with May for praising Dion's environmental record and saying he would make a better prime minister than Stephen Harper.

Vancouver Island environmentalist Briony Penn defected from the Greens last month and announced her decision to run for the Liberals in the coming election, saying May's praise of Dion inspired her decision.

Pros and Cons

And environmental activist Jamey Heath expressed incredulity that May would lend her support to a party whose record on reducing greenhouse gas emissions is worse than that of the U.S. under President George W. Bush.

And among Liberals, there is grumbling that the deal enforces the notion that Dion's leadership is weak and he needs to be propped up by another party, that his only priority is climate change and that he's drifting further and further to the left, CP suggests.

Dion's odds of holding his Montreal riding are already so strong it's unlikely that the absence of a Green challenger will make much difference.

Also, Liberals have always been proud to boast about the fact they have always run candidates in every riding.

However, both parties could also see benefits from the agreement.

The most obvious advantage for May is that it boosts her chances of besting MacKay.

For the Liberals, the move is intended to demonstrate Dion is so committed to addressing environmental concerns he is willing to sacrifice partisanship in order to make progress.

If that works, it could help convince Canadians that Dion really is the environmental champion that supporters have pegged him to be -- an idea the Conservatives have been attempting to discredit over the past few months.

The Liberals also hope May's endorsement will help the party win back some of the votes they lost to the NDP in the last election.

With files from The Canadian Press
 

jjinvan

New member
Apr 4, 2005
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The cons are going to win that riding with much more than 50% of the votes, just like they did last time.

If the lefties really wanted to put partisanship aside etc blah blah blah then what they would do is to only run one leftie candidate (between all the leftie parties) in the ridings where the cons actually won the seat with less than half of the votes.

Like their egos will EVER allow that to happen.

They might as well agree not to run against each other in Harper's riding.
 

OTBn

New member
Jan 2, 2006
568
0
0
Not like a Liberal or Green was going to get elected in that riding anyhow. MacKay had 6000 more votes than the Liberals and Greens combined last time around. Stephane is causing considerable dissent in his party with this latest move, and apparently the Liberal's constitution calls for them to run candidates in every riding.
The Red-Green Show - woohoo!

The real question is whether the current public dissatisfaction with the Cons-NDP voting alliance, coupled with the Red-Green show (woohoo!), will be enough to send poor Peter back to his dog.
 

OTBn

New member
Jan 2, 2006
568
0
0
The cons are going to win that riding with much more than 50% of the votes, just like they did last time.
Huh! - try 40% Cons, 33% NDP, 25% Liberal... not that being accurate has ever seemed to make much difference to you :D
 

jjinvan

New member
Apr 4, 2005
689
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0
Huh! - try 40% Cons, 33% NDP, 25% Liberal... not that being accurate has ever seemed to make much difference to you :D
Should have said that they were going to win that riding just like they did last time, and with more than 50% of the votes.

At least my english is probably better than your french.
 

jjinvan

New member
Apr 4, 2005
689
0
0
The Red-Green Show - woohoo!

The real question is whether the current public dissatisfaction with the Cons-NDP voting alliance, coupled with the Red-Green show (woohoo!), will be enough to send poor Peter back to his dog.
What Cons-NDP voting alliance???

Do the words 'cold day in hell' mean anything to you?
 

MissingOne

Don't just do something, sit there.
Jan 2, 2006
2,223
421
83
Do the words 'cold day in hell' mean anything to you?
Why yes, they do. I've marked that on my calendar. It's the day I will vote for a party led by Mr. Harper.

Thank you for asking.
 

edmontonsubbie

Edmontonsubbie
Apr 22, 2006
1,307
19
38
113
uh...Edmonton.
I saw this bit on the news...and independent of the comments listed above...i just glanced through all that....too many people sounding as they know what they were talking about.

I'm the first to admit...I know piss all. All I do know is that my first reaction to this was...geeeze....idiots....I can see the green party doing this...but not Mssr. Dion....he should surely know better than to hand such a gift to his opposition.

Obviously his counsel is lacking. Or, perhaps, I'm wrong. Was it a brilliant move?
 

Vroomfondel

Rear Admiral
Oct 27, 2006
39
0
6
The Pacific Rim
For me, this deal between May and Dion raises several issues:

1) Kyoto is not a holy grail, and climate change should not be the only item on the environmentalist agenda. If, hypothetically, Liberal policy was to adhere to Kyoto protocols for CO2 emissions but then not address water pollution, forest conservation, organic farming, etc. does that therefore make the Liberals the "best" choice for the environment? Does that make Dion the "best" choice for prime minister?

2) There appear to be a plethora of differences (or, at least there used to be) between the platforms of the Liberals and the Greens at the time of the last election. If I choose to vote Green at the next election, how can I (and other voters) be sure that it is not a circuitous pathway to Dion and the Liberals? If climate change is Ms. May's only agenda, and if she is willing to endorse a politician/party whose environmental record is otherwise miserable just for the sake of Kyoto, then why not just merge the parties?

3) McKay? Nova Scotia? WTF? Ms. May has given her reasons for running in that riding on her blog: http://www.greenparty.ca/en/node/1167. Her justifications and explanations are superficial at best; I particularly enjoyed the reference to David Orchard and it's obvious that many environmentalists/greeners, on the left and even on the right-wing, still resent McKay for his treachery in that affair. Revenge is a dish best served cold, Liz -- best to save it for an occasion that doesn't make you look like a clumsy, amateur strategist as well as a short-sighted sellout.
 

OTBn

New member
Jan 2, 2006
568
0
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OTBn said:
The Red-Green Show - woohoo!

The real question is whether the current public dissatisfaction with the Cons-NDP voting alliance, coupled with the Red-Green show (woohoo!), will be enough to send poor Peter back to his dog.

jjinvan said:
What Cons-NDP voting alliance???

Do the words 'cold day in hell' mean anything to you?
Yup – it starts with the direct voting alliance that brought down the minority lib government… you know, the one where Layton turned his back on the NDP’s progressive principles and the many in-roads being made with the minority lib government (child care, new legal protections for workers, the aboriginal deal, etc.)… to pave the road for one of the most ideological right-wing leaders (Harper) in history. Surely you aren’t selectively forgetting all the talk of ‘backroom dealing’ between Harper and Layton that led to the eventual non-confidence vote?

… and it continues with the current working alliance between Layton and Harper and Layton's circumspect non-confidence voting – the one that has riled many within the NDP party… how else to interpret the political behaviours of Layton and his largely token rhetoric against the Harper government? Is it cold in here Jack? – ergo we must be in (Harper) hell?
 

jjinvan

New member
Apr 4, 2005
689
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Yup – it starts with the direct voting alliance that brought down the minority lib government… you know, the one where Layton turned his back on the NDP’s progressive principles and the many in-roads being made with the minority lib government (child care, new legal protections for workers, the aboriginal deal, etc.)… to pave the road for one of the most ideological right-wing leaders (Harper) in history. Surely you aren’t selectively forgetting all the talk of ‘backroom dealing’ between Harper and Layton that led to the eventual non-confidence vote?

… and it continues with the current working alliance between Layton and Harper and Layton's circumspect non-confidence voting – the one that has riled many within the NDP party… how else to interpret the political behaviours of Layton and his largely token rhetoric against the Harper government? Is it cold in here Jack? – ergo we must be in (Harper) hell?
Layton was a moron and brought down the liberals because he figured he could increase the number of seats held by the NDP while the liberals were taking a lot of heat. Harper and Duceppe figured the same thing for themselves.

Currently the Bloc knows darn well that they are in a position where they have the most power they can get, they can never actually form the government, so they will support Harper's government whenever they possibly can. They do NOT want an election. Harper couldn't give a flying fuck about Layton because he doesn't hold the balance of power, the Bloc holds it.

Layton was much better off before the election than after it, and if you actually think otherwise you're just showing that you're even stupider than he is.
 

jjinvan

New member
Apr 4, 2005
689
0
0
how else to interpret the political behaviours of Layton and his largely token rhetoric against the Harper government? Is it cold in here Jack? – ergo we must be in (Harper) hell?
Simple, Layton knows that if an election were held now his party would wind up with fewer seats than they currently have.

He has NO power currently, as the government plus the NDP can't outvote the bloc and the liberals. But if there was an election he'd be in even worse shape.

Why on earth would Harper bother to give Layton anything for his votes, when he has no use for them because he needs the votes from the Bloc anyway and once he has those, he doesn't need those from the NDP.
 

steverino

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2004
1,598
1,108
113
The problem for the Liberals is....

every time a Green member makes some stupid statement (like they support Al Queda against the US) the Liberals are going to have to answerr for it. When you tie your wagon to another party you become responsible for thier positions.
 

Vroomfondel

Rear Admiral
Oct 27, 2006
39
0
6
The Pacific Rim
every time a Green member makes some stupid statement (like they support Al Queda against the US) the Liberals are going to have to answerr for it. When you tie your wagon to another party you become responsible for thier positions.
That's absolutely true, steverino. It's also why I've lost any support I previously had for the Greens. I'm not going to vote Liberal AND vote for Al Qaeda! :mad:
 

LonelyGhost

Telefunkin
Apr 26, 2004
3,935
0
0
what kills me is that the stupid Cons won't do what they were
elected to do and that's fight crime.

assbukkets instead get into every stinking issue on the planet
that no one cares about and flounder about trying to find an
issue when every person who voted for them wanted some
law and order.

every time harper opens his yap and says by 2020 most voters
check their calendars and realize they will be dead by then:
either from some young offender, some asshat out on parole
or boredom listening to harper yap about gay marriage, or
some other stupidity.

if these freakin morons don't get busy there will be a liberal
minority propped up again by the ndp and greens and this
country will be over-run with more criminals than we know
what to do with.

nutcakes!
 

jjinvan

New member
Apr 4, 2005
689
0
0
what kills me is that the stupid Cons won't do what they were
elected to do and that's fight crime.

assbukkets instead get into every stinking issue on the planet
that no one cares about and flounder about trying to find an
issue when every person who voted for them wanted some
law and order.

every time harper opens his yap and says by 2020 most voters
check their calendars and realize they will be dead by then:
either from some young offender, some asshat out on parole
or boredom listening to harper yap about gay marriage, or
some other stupidity.

if these freakin morons don't get busy there will be a liberal
minority propped up again by the ndp and greens and this
country will be over-run with more criminals than we know
what to do with.

nutcakes!
The Conservatives passed the legislation to toughen up the criminal laws but it has been held up in the Unelected (liberal dominated) Senate.

If you have any ideas how to get the liberal senators to stop stealing public funds for themselves and actually let the government do its job, I'm sure Harper would love to hear them.

We're already over run with too many criminals, the problem is not that we don't know what to do with them (the legislation has already been passed through the government). The problem is that a bunch of criminals (hey, several of them have actually been convicted of crimes) that the liberals appointed to the senate are blocking the legislation.
 

jjinvan

New member
Apr 4, 2005
689
0
0
every time a Green member makes some stupid statement (like they support Al Queda against the US) the Liberals are going to have to answerr for it. When you tie your wagon to another party you become responsible for thier positions.
The liberals have never even accepted responsibility for their OWN positions, why would they start accepting responsibility for those of the greens?

Remember the leftie mantra: No one is ever personally responsible for anything.
 

citylover

Member
Sep 24, 2006
247
0
16
Gawd, what color is the sky in your world? Ours is blue.

Crime everywhere? Leeberal judges letting everyone out? Fuck all other issues?

Man, clueless. I wish the tories would take your brilliant advice. "Let's get a lot more cops on the street to bust all the weed dealers & the street walkers..."

& maybe those spouting fake internet degrees as the real thing, while we're at it

Or better, yet, why don't y'all just ride the streets w/ your shotguns the way yore daddies used to do, instead of cowering at home in the closet? Shoot any brown thing that moves.

 
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sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
2,189
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0
Layton was a moron and brought down the liberals because he figured he could increase the number of seats held by the NDP while the liberals were taking a lot of heat. Harper and Duceppe figured the same thing for themselves.

Currently the Bloc knows darn well that they are in a position where they have the most power they can get, they can never actually form the government, so they will support Harper's government whenever they possibly can. They do NOT want an election. Harper couldn't give a flying fuck about Layton because he doesn't hold the balance of power, the Bloc holds it.

Layton was much better off before the election than after it, and if you actually think otherwise you're just showing that you're even stupider than he is.
The reason we are not currently in a Federal Election is the results of the Quebec Provincial Election.

With the PQ losing so badly that they aren't even the official opposition, the Bloc knows that they will have to rebuild support before supporting the defeat of the Harper government.

With the Liberals losing their majority government in Quebec, the federal Liberal party knows that they made the wrong choice with Dion. The Liberals know that a federal election now will result in a federal Conservative majority.

The NDP looks at their failure to gain any traction in Quebec, the failure of the Greens to elect anyone in the provincial election and the defeat of the Liberals and senses that a federal election may not even allow them to keep "safe" seats.

Harper and his Conservatives are looking at least a year before the opposition is willing to think about bring his government down.

Quite unlike the weeks before the Quebec provincial election which saw the various vacant storefronts being bid on by the political partys. I currently have a number of storefronts in various municipalities that are being paid for despite the fact that the people who rented them are now trying to negotiate a way out of their agreements. :)
If someone wants them for a retail operation, I'll reluctantly let the political partys off the hook.
 
Ashley Madison
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