Green Hydrogen vs Electric Car

80watts

Well-known member
May 20, 2004
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Green hydrogen- made from renewable resources like solar (which converts water into hydrogen and oxygen). Need renewable resources like solar and wind etc. Need a fuel cell which converts hydrogen into electric power. Not to be made from Natural Gas (produces CO2).
In Germany they are experimenting with light to directly make the hydrogen from water, bypassing using electricity to make hydrogen. They are also looking at to replacing Natural Gas lines to pump hydrogen. Use existing infrastructure and just convert it to carry hydrogen.
In North America we already have hydrogen powered fuel cells for buses.
Overall more able to make big things like semi truck and big machinery go as its similar to a gas engine. Fuel cell + hydrogen tank.

Electric Car - like Tesla depend on an large enough battery to drive an electric car. Problem is range and quick charging. Less conversion of energy between production of electricity and use in a electric car. This gets better with improved battery efficiencies. Maybe improved solar for top of car to trickle charge it. The other thing is that the rare earth metals that make up the electric motor is going to be a stalling point for both battery and fuel cell cars.

Overall system of the electrical grid will need mass storage for renewable energy (from solar and wind) in the form of some type of battery that can hold and store power for a long time. Right now if you convert all ICE motors to electric battery (like the Tesla car), their would not be enough Electricity in the grid to provide for all the electric cars. (my hands out for BC Hydro for not having incentives for people to get renewable energy in BC- seems they are behind the track and still trying to make dams- and keep profits to themselves)

Drawback for hydrogen are the Hindenburg Accident in the US in the late 30's. Hydrogen burns blue when it burns. It could be more explosive than a propane BLEVE (boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion). Can't remember if it was Popular Science or Mechanics that covered the Hindenburg, which suggested that the fire pictures were red in colour, meaning that it was something else burning (I think they said it was the compound that made the linen gas tight; that was the culprit for the fire).

Another thing is the use of rare earth metals (80%-90% supplied by China) in all new technologies for batteries and fuel cells and electric motors.

Just my opinion but in the long term I think it will be the hydrogen fuel cell that will be the future winner due to the fact it takes sun and water to make hydrogen.
 

Crookedmember

I Don't Member
Sep 2, 2017
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One really big plus for electricity is charging stations can be built anywhere there are power lines. There are chargers at the Britton Creek rest area, for example.
Gasoline and hydrogen have to be transported by pipeline or tanker, and building fueling stations is a lot more complicated and expensive.
 
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PuntMeister

Punt-on!
Jul 13, 2003
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After decades of R&d, fuel cells still aren’tvready for prime time, except in a few niches—forklifts, bus, etc where hydrogen depot is right there.

Yet hydrogen has one potential advantage where it is a battery alternative. Biggest problem with wind and solar is the cost and issues around batteries. Especially wind which is often best away from urban centres. So hydrogen solutions can convert/store/ship the energy to where it’s needed. In the end tho, I think the grid wins out over hydrogen, and the eV wins the vehicle game where we are moving all over the place. Hydrogen will find a few worthy niches and maybe in 100 years become mainstream.
 

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
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Hydrogen also suffers from a volume issue..you need a really big tank or a really heavy tank for compressed /liquid and a fridge on all your big rigs. Shipd and trains would be pretty easy though.

They could also maybe store the hydrogen and then convert it to electricity when needed near the generation sight though. Would make the prairies a prime spot.
 

masterpoonhunter

"Marriage should be a renewable contract"
Sep 15, 2019
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General spitballing here on fuel cells/
  • The problem with hydrogen has always been storage and making it at the source involved power in for the electrolysis of water, so now you need a means of making that power. Folks have worked with storing H2 in sponges like Nickel (think nickel metal hydride) but that can only get you so far, so its back to the heavy pressurized tank and an amazing fireworks display if things catch on fire. Zeppelin, no not the Led one the Nazi one.
  • The proton exchange membrane instability problems seem to have been worked out but there is still the expense of the catalysis component, historically platinum. Lots of work now on cheaper more available materials.
  • Military and telecoms have been using fuel cell based power stations for years for remote power but those are well controlled ie sealed boxes, no vibration, no moving parts etc. Those work but still need H2 delivery now and then to keep on working.
  • Remember the green Ballard Buses a couple decades ago, always parked at the side of the road with what looked like a hoard of lab guys in white suits crawling all over them? That is what R&D really looks like!
  • So in general, grand daddy players like Ballard Power working with Daimler etc etc have come up with viable power systems for buses, trucks with potential for ships. All good and all capable of significantly reducing GHG's. But for cars/trucks for you and I, not yet and not for the foreseeable future.
  • I say keep on doing it Ballard and your friends but its really in battery tech. Which is improving almost every day.
  • And I am putting my extra investment cash into those players.
/cheers
 

Lo-ki

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2011
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Check your closet..:)
2 Green Hydrogen Fueled Car collide downtown Vancouver
1636059735511.png
 

ModSquad

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I’ve been thinking of getting into an electric vehicle and never got a clear understanding of battery replacement costs. Most sales people will tell you not to worry since most failures are within the warranty period which used to be 7 years.

Then I found this video on YouTube about Tesla charging US$22,500 plus labour to replace a battery. It made me start thinking hydrogen might be a viable choice.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/13/tesla-battery-pack-replacement-repair/
 
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rlock

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May 20, 2015
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Hydrogen's got some good uses, but it's not optimal in every application. Maybe not consumer cars, but fuel cells are useful in a lot of other places.
BC Ferries, for example, could probably run their ships on hydrogen fuel cells rather than either diesel or LNG. They're already going electric for some small vessels, but for the larger or longer range runs it might not be as practical.

As for battery changing, or even swapping routinely, this is something that government needs to put down their foot on. It's already an issue with cel-phones and some apppliances; a "right to repair" movement is gaining traction. Face it, they'd rather just make it so hard you have to buy a whole new [whatever]. For profits, that suits them, but environmentally, it is a terrible waste. Some someone needs to force the companies to design their products for easier repair / replacement of batteries, instead of this "proprietary" bullshit that makes it as hard & costly as possible.
 
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GeeBeeP

On a secret journey through PleasureTown.
Dec 28, 2019
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I’ve been thinking of getting into an electric vehicle and never got a clear understanding of battery replacement costs. Most sales people will tell you not to worry since most failures are within the warranty period which used to be 7 years.

Then I found this video on YouTube about Tesla charging US$22,500 plus labour to replace a battery. It made me start thinking hydrogen might be a viable choice.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/13/tesla-battery-pack-replacement-repair/
I've been driving an electric Nissan for almost 3 years now and had the same concerns when I finally made the decision to get one. In hindsight it is a non-issue. I've had no degradation in battery capacity or range yet.

Re the Tesla battery replacement cost, they may be the most well known EV but they certainly aren't the only one. Tesla's are very cool and the top end of the technology, but Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, Ford, GM and others all have EV's with a good track record, at lower price points, and good tech's who know how to service them. (Which isn't often BTW as the regular maintenance costs are way lower than any ICE vehicle I've ever owned. No oil changes, belts, hoses etc.. and even the brakes last much longer.)
 

GeeBeeP

On a secret journey through PleasureTown.
Dec 28, 2019
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I agree that hydrogen will be best used in commercial transport, ships, trains and some trucking, while cars are better suited to electric.
 

Silverpooner

Member
Oct 4, 2017
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I’m waiting for the next improvement of battery packs. Give it 5-10 years, then we won’t be cooking with gas.
 

PuntMeister

Punt-on!
Jul 13, 2003
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If we could harness my dog’s farts, I reckon I could commute to Surrey and Back!

…Collection and Storage would definately be a problem 😝
 

angry anderson

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2014
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I’ve been thinking of getting into an electric vehicle and never got a clear understanding of battery replacement costs. Most sales people will tell you not to worry since most failures are within the warranty period which used to be 7 years.

Then I found this video on YouTube about Tesla charging US$22,500 plus labour to replace a battery. It made me start thinking hydrogen might be a viable choice.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/13/tesla-battery-pack-replacement-repair/
Nio has battery swap out stations.
 
Ashley Madison
Vancouver Escorts