I recently broke up with my ex, and there was a dispute over my dog to which the cops were called, he blackmailed me by saying I run an escort agency out of my house. He knew about me being an escort for 2 years and would demand money in return, expect me to pay for his gas, groceries, bills, and give him spending money. The dispute was settled, I got the dog, but the cops gave me the cold shoulder and kept on insisting that sex for money is illegal, no matter if its done at the clients private place of residence. From what I remember, brothels and public places are illegal (he was trying to make it sound like thats what I was doing) but meeting up at cafes and.or residences was completely legit. Right?? At least when I read up on Canadian law, thats what it said. Otherwise why would so many escort agencies advertise in the phone book? He went on to say there were alot of illegal things goin on in the phone book. If so, why is it allowed? Please anyone, can you confirm to me that outcalls in a private home are completely legal, no matter if there are sexual activities involved? Thanks.
Ex Trying to Blackmail?
- Thread starter Foxy_Tasha
- Start date
THe cop is an idiot
The typical BS you get from some self richious cop who ovious does not know the different between SW and true escorting
If you are escorting the common conscious is that the guy is paying for your time Yes we all know sex may be involved but not necessarily and so what Prostitution is legal in Canada . Solicitation in a public place ( talking price and sevices ) Don't talk in resterauts about price unless it is just casual dinner conversation , it is illegal ..
Put it this way if the city sells licenses to escort agencies and girls then it is legal . They do in Victoria , Vancouver , Calgary and a few other places
So maybe some one should educate the the police as to what is going on in there city,,
Now if you did not have a license well that is a bylaw infraction
Yes the police may get involved then.
It has been talked about a few time here and you should be able to find the thread as well as a number of sites that talk about the legality of Prostitution in Canada.. Solicitation in public , Underage girls and sex trafficking is what the LE tagets and they seem to be going after the johns in those areas. That is is what i have notices any ways.
THe law on body house and living off the avails of prostitution has so many gray areas that is is hard to prove in court unless it is very obvious. Escort agencies charge fees for there services of answering phones , making appointments and supping a room The girls recieve the money from the client and pay he fees , if it was the other way around whre the agency received the money and payed the girl then in could be proven to be illegal if seen by a police officer or there was a number of witnesses to back it up.
Same for two or more girls running out of a house .. They basicly share the expenses and who will testify that the sole purpus of the house is for prostitution , not a client and the police are not allowed to have sex to prove the case.. And have ing sex once in a house does not prove that that is all that happens there. That is why LE seldom go there unless there are complains from the neighborhood..
Solicitation is the only one they go after because they can prov that one with under cover officers.
The typical BS you get from some self richious cop who ovious does not know the different between SW and true escorting
If you are escorting the common conscious is that the guy is paying for your time Yes we all know sex may be involved but not necessarily and so what Prostitution is legal in Canada . Solicitation in a public place ( talking price and sevices ) Don't talk in resterauts about price unless it is just casual dinner conversation , it is illegal ..
Put it this way if the city sells licenses to escort agencies and girls then it is legal . They do in Victoria , Vancouver , Calgary and a few other places
So maybe some one should educate the the police as to what is going on in there city,,
Now if you did not have a license well that is a bylaw infraction
Yes the police may get involved then. It has been talked about a few time here and you should be able to find the thread as well as a number of sites that talk about the legality of Prostitution in Canada.. Solicitation in public , Underage girls and sex trafficking is what the LE tagets and they seem to be going after the johns in those areas. That is is what i have notices any ways.
THe law on body house and living off the avails of prostitution has so many gray areas that is is hard to prove in court unless it is very obvious. Escort agencies charge fees for there services of answering phones , making appointments and supping a room The girls recieve the money from the client and pay he fees , if it was the other way around whre the agency received the money and payed the girl then in could be proven to be illegal if seen by a police officer or there was a number of witnesses to back it up.
Same for two or more girls running out of a house .. They basicly share the expenses and who will testify that the sole purpus of the house is for prostitution , not a client and the police are not allowed to have sex to prove the case.. And have ing sex once in a house does not prove that that is all that happens there. That is why LE seldom go there unless there are complains from the neighborhood..
Solicitation is the only one they go after because they can prov that one with under cover officers.
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Actually if you read the laws or speak with a lawyer that has worked in this area of the law you will see that talking about exchanging money for sex ANYWHERE EVEN behind closed doors is considered against the law.
So many of us have believed that once we are behind closed doors we can talk...the reality is you cannot. It seems that they want us to feel safe enough once we are in private to talk..but the reality is NEVER TALK ABOUT EXCHANGING $ FOR SEXUAL SERVICES. OR TALK ABOUT THE $ AT ALL.
Have the client place the $ in an unseal envelope and slip off the the bathroom to ensure that it is the correct amount. I always make it clear to future clients that if you try to speak to me about $ I will ask you to leave!!!
Now it is true that the LE rarely bothers indies that work in a discret incall location but if they really want to they can still get you...
I say it's best if you are doing incalls to use a hotel or apartment that is far away from residential neighborhoods....do not share your incall location because then you may run into bawdy house stuff.
So many of us have believed that once we are behind closed doors we can talk...the reality is you cannot. It seems that they want us to feel safe enough once we are in private to talk..but the reality is NEVER TALK ABOUT EXCHANGING $ FOR SEXUAL SERVICES. OR TALK ABOUT THE $ AT ALL.
Have the client place the $ in an unseal envelope and slip off the the bathroom to ensure that it is the correct amount. I always make it clear to future clients that if you try to speak to me about $ I will ask you to leave!!!
Now it is true that the LE rarely bothers indies that work in a discret incall location but if they really want to they can still get you...
I say it's best if you are doing incalls to use a hotel or apartment that is far away from residential neighborhoods....do not share your incall location because then you may run into bawdy house stuff.
Sorry but you are wrong!!!
YOU SEEM TO HAVE MISSED SECTION 212...i THINK THE LAWS YOU HAVE PUT ARE MORE DIRECTED AT STREET WALKERS.
Let me add that these laws in section 212 mostly are here tp protect us and stop pimps and bawdy houses...however it clearly states that anyone trying to solicit sex..so in reality it is not safe behind closed doors.
This is not about who is right and who is wrong but about making sure that EVERY SP is educated..this is an obvious grey area..but when I have a friend that is LE not just a cop but much higher sit me down and show me this then I will take it seriously..why take the chance of speaking behind closed doors when clearly you are not safe to speak ANYWHERE!
1)(A) Every one who
procures, attempts to procure or solicits a person to have illicit sexual intercourse with another person, whether in or out of Canada,
(b) inveigles or entices a person who is not a prostitute to a common bawdy-house for the purpose of illicit sexual intercourse or prostitution,
(c) knowingly conceals a person in a common bawdy-house,
(d) procures or attempts to procure a person to become, whether in or out of Canada, a prostitute,
(e) procures or attempts to procure a person to leave the usual place of abode of that person in Canada, if that place is not a common bawdy-house, with intent that the person may become an inmate or frequenter of a common bawdy-house, whether in or out of Canada,
(f) on the arrival of a person in Canada, directs or causes that person to be directed or takes or causes that person to be taken, to a common bawdy-house,
(g) procures a person to enter or leave Canada, for the purpose of prostitution,
(h) for the purposes of gain, exercises control, direction or influence over the movements of a person in such manner as to show that he is aiding, abetting or compelling that person to engage in or carry on prostitution with any person or generally,
(i) applies or administers to a person or causes that person to take any drug, intoxicating liquor, matter or thing with intent to stupefy or overpower that person in order thereby to enable any person to have illicit sexual intercourse with that person, or
(j) lives wholly or in part on the avails of prostitution of another person,
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.
Living on the avails of prostitution of person under eighteen
(2) Despite paragraph (1)(j), every person who lives wholly or in part on the avails of prostitution of another person who is under the age of eighteen years is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of two years.
Aggravated offence in relation to living on the avails of prostitution of a person under the age of eighteen years
(2.1) Notwithstanding paragraph (1)(j) and subsection (2), every person who lives wholly or in part on the avails of prostitution of another person under the age of eighteen years, and who
(a) for the purposes of profit, aids, abets, counsels or compels the person under that age to engage in or carry on prostitution with any person or generally, and
(b) uses, threatens to use or attempts to use violence, intimidation or coercion in relation to the person under that age,
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years but not less than five years.
Presumption
(3) Evidence that a person lives with or is habitually in the company of a prostitute or lives in a common bawdy-house is, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, proof that the person lives on the avails of prostitution, for the purposes of paragraph (1)(j) and subsections (2) and (2.1).
Offence — prostitution of person under eighteen
(4) Every person who, in any place, obtains for consideration, or communicates with anyone for the purpose of obtaining for consideration, the sexual services of a person who is under the age of eighteen years is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of six months.
(5) [Repealed, 1999, c. 5, s. 8]
R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 212; R.S., 1985, c. 19 (3rd Supp.), s. 9; 1997, c. 16, s. 2; 1999, c. 5, s. 8; 2005, c. 32, s. 10.1.
Last updated: 2009-06-29 Important Notices
Last updated: 2009-06-29 Important Notices
Last updated: 2009-06-29 Important Notices
YOU SEEM TO HAVE MISSED SECTION 212...i THINK THE LAWS YOU HAVE PUT ARE MORE DIRECTED AT STREET WALKERS.
Let me add that these laws in section 212 mostly are here tp protect us and stop pimps and bawdy houses...however it clearly states that anyone trying to solicit sex..so in reality it is not safe behind closed doors.
This is not about who is right and who is wrong but about making sure that EVERY SP is educated..this is an obvious grey area..but when I have a friend that is LE not just a cop but much higher sit me down and show me this then I will take it seriously..why take the chance of speaking behind closed doors when clearly you are not safe to speak ANYWHERE!
1)(A) Every one who
procures, attempts to procure or solicits a person to have illicit sexual intercourse with another person, whether in or out of Canada,
(b) inveigles or entices a person who is not a prostitute to a common bawdy-house for the purpose of illicit sexual intercourse or prostitution,
(c) knowingly conceals a person in a common bawdy-house,
(d) procures or attempts to procure a person to become, whether in or out of Canada, a prostitute,
(e) procures or attempts to procure a person to leave the usual place of abode of that person in Canada, if that place is not a common bawdy-house, with intent that the person may become an inmate or frequenter of a common bawdy-house, whether in or out of Canada,
(f) on the arrival of a person in Canada, directs or causes that person to be directed or takes or causes that person to be taken, to a common bawdy-house,
(g) procures a person to enter or leave Canada, for the purpose of prostitution,
(h) for the purposes of gain, exercises control, direction or influence over the movements of a person in such manner as to show that he is aiding, abetting or compelling that person to engage in or carry on prostitution with any person or generally,
(i) applies or administers to a person or causes that person to take any drug, intoxicating liquor, matter or thing with intent to stupefy or overpower that person in order thereby to enable any person to have illicit sexual intercourse with that person, or
(j) lives wholly or in part on the avails of prostitution of another person,
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.
Living on the avails of prostitution of person under eighteen
(2) Despite paragraph (1)(j), every person who lives wholly or in part on the avails of prostitution of another person who is under the age of eighteen years is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of two years.
Aggravated offence in relation to living on the avails of prostitution of a person under the age of eighteen years
(2.1) Notwithstanding paragraph (1)(j) and subsection (2), every person who lives wholly or in part on the avails of prostitution of another person under the age of eighteen years, and who
(a) for the purposes of profit, aids, abets, counsels or compels the person under that age to engage in or carry on prostitution with any person or generally, and
(b) uses, threatens to use or attempts to use violence, intimidation or coercion in relation to the person under that age,
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years but not less than five years.
Presumption
(3) Evidence that a person lives with or is habitually in the company of a prostitute or lives in a common bawdy-house is, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, proof that the person lives on the avails of prostitution, for the purposes of paragraph (1)(j) and subsections (2) and (2.1).
Offence — prostitution of person under eighteen
(4) Every person who, in any place, obtains for consideration, or communicates with anyone for the purpose of obtaining for consideration, the sexual services of a person who is under the age of eighteen years is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of six months.
(5) [Repealed, 1999, c. 5, s. 8]
R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 212; R.S., 1985, c. 19 (3rd Supp.), s. 9; 1997, c. 16, s. 2; 1999, c. 5, s. 8; 2005, c. 32, s. 10.1.
Last updated: 2009-06-29 Important Notices
Last updated: 2009-06-29 Important Notices
Last updated: 2009-06-29 Important Notices
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I also clearly point out that thses laws are there to PROTECT us from pimps Bawdy houses etc. However the possibility is there.....I'm not willing to take the chance while others may still feel safe.
I still think NOTHING should ever be discussed when you are meeting, especially a new client...
Better safe then sorry...
Rachelle
I still think NOTHING should ever be discussed when you are meeting, especially a new client...
Better safe then sorry...
Rachelle
Discussing rates and services in a phone call has been RULED IN A COURT OF LAW private and perfectly legal.I also clearly point out that thses laws are there to PROTECT us from pimps Bawdy houses etc. However the possibility is there.....I'm not willing to take the chance while others may still feel safe.
I still think NOTHING should ever be discussed when you are meeting, especially a new client...
Better safe then sorry...
Rachelle
On the other thread, link provided, it is CLEARLY laid out that discussing rates & services behind closed doors in COMPLETELY LEGAL. There is no grey fuzzy area, there is nothing to misinterpret or misunderstand. The legality of even the phone call has been upheld in a court of law.
I do not know where you are getting your information, but your "expert" is no expert, imo, and seems to be deliberately misleading you for some reason.
Even what you quoted has nothing to do with discussion of rates, or the exchange of $ for sexual services.
At the end of the day, I cannot believe that working escorts still actually believe that prostitution is illegal, or that they cannot even discuss rates & services at any time. The information is readily available, there are dozens of threads linking dozens of facts, yet even in a thread that provides the facts in earlier posts, we see the same "statements of fact" about illegality.
No wonder the media continues to ask "should prostitution be legal" when it already is. The people working in the industry think it is illegal, why would they look any further than their own preconceptions.
Thank you guys for trying clearing this up. I've decided to just hire a lawyer and speak to them. I'm aware that prostitution is not against the law. I'm also aware of what is against the law. I do understand the laws..
However it is my choice to NOT discuss $ in person with a new client..maybe I'm being stubborn but oh well. I'll talk with someone who specializes in the biz and get every law broken down etc..You may think that this is a waste of $, but to me being 100% confident that I will not get into trouble will be worth every cent. I love to travel and am also a parent wanting to go back to collage or university....I can not afford to chance having a record. As I'm sure this is just as important to most sp's out there
Thank you for your thoughts....now that we have taken over this girls thread..back on topic....
However it is my choice to NOT discuss $ in person with a new client..maybe I'm being stubborn but oh well. I'll talk with someone who specializes in the biz and get every law broken down etc..You may think that this is a waste of $, but to me being 100% confident that I will not get into trouble will be worth every cent. I love to travel and am also a parent wanting to go back to collage or university....I can not afford to chance having a record. As I'm sure this is just as important to most sp's out there
Thank you for your thoughts....now that we have taken over this girls thread..back on topic....
I would recommend that you do not use any old lawyer, but someone who actually knows about this field. Check with susi for some links to someone who does know what they are talking about, or just click on her name to find more posts by her. A few recent posts have the information you might need.Thank you guys for trying clearing this up. I've decided to just hire a lawyer and speak to them. I'm aware that prostitution is not against the law. I'm also aware of what is against the law. I do understand the laws..
However it is my choice to NOT discuss $ in person with a new client..maybe I'm being stubborn but oh well. I'll talk with someone who specializes in the biz and get every law broken down etc..You may think that this is a waste of $, but to me being 100% confident that I will not get into trouble will be worth every cent. I love to travel and am also a parent wanting to go back to collage or university....I can not afford to chance having a record. As I'm sure this is just as important to most sp's out there
Thank you for your thoughts....now that we have taken over this girls thread..back on topic....
You also need to be aware of the city bylaws where you work. The other thread has some excellent information for Edmonton.
It clearly states "Procuring" at the top of section 212, intended for the purpose of controlling pimping and it does mention "with another person." It is made distinct from the communication laws which forbid discussion of sex for money in a public place. I don't see how any police officer or crown council could prove (or bother to spend the resources to prove) that the person was procuring someone to engage in sex with someone else but was really just discussing sex in exchange for money. I know the laws are very gray and are written in this way to be interpretable by crown council or the police or judges as they see fit, but this would be a stretch - a BIG stretch. Think of it.
Whoever told you this (if indeed it was a lawyer) should take a few refresher courses. It just goes to show how even people in their own profession don't know all the laws, especially remote statutes like those dealing with prostitution. They rarely make it to trial because men charged with them want to make the charges disappear as quickly as possible to avoid embarrassment, so they pay the fine or attend john school. The police and courts in Canada don't have the money nor the manpower to go after an SP for such bullshit petty charges that no crown council is willing to take to court, especially because they're extremely difficult to prove behind closed doors. Crown council, especially in western Canada ONLY take slam dunk cases and tell police officers to go fuck themselves when they bring charges that are extremely hard to prove. This is not the USA where police have unlimited budgets to try and put EVERY petty criminal in jail. This is Canada, amen.
"Theoretical physics can prove an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy, but use your eyes - your common sense." Appropriate quote from "JFK" (1991).
Panther
Thank you..YEs I'm VERY aware of the bylaw and licensing in all the cities I tour to. Actually it will be a friend and I possibly finding a lawyer and we WILL be looking for someone with vast knowledge and experience of prostitution in Canada.
I have been following a few of the other legal threads that Susi has posted on as well.
Thank You!
Rachelle
