Election 2015

[badbadboy]

Badbadboy, where I disagree with your statements is on "throwing a bone to the majority of taxpayers" reference.

Raising TFSA and RRSP contribution limits benefits only a very small percentage of the population as a whole. Basically, the majority of Canadians biggest problem is not that they can only put away 18% or up to $24k of their income tax free in an RRSP and then can only save up to another $5k in a TFSA.

Do you really think the AVERAGE Canadian had anywhere near that kind if discretionary income left over to fund their retirement when the AVERAGE Canadian household income is somewhere around $55k annualy?

The only people who need more contribution room are those earning over $130,000 annually as they are the only ones running out of RRSP contribution room at current maximums.

Again pandering to a core Conservative demographic. Those two increases are basically a giant middle finger to the middle class.

Where are the middle class home owners in the GVRD living on $55K? More likely $130K household income to own a home and reside in the GVRD. Sure your numbers are for all of Canada but in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Calgary and Vancouver the middle class wage earners are over $100K and they are not rich either.

The people making $300K and above don't really need nor care about the TFSA but they will keep that perk if its still on the table after the election.

 

[westwoody]

Badboy, Trudeau is also touting a reduction in taxes for the middle class that might offset his other changes to TFSA.

I think honestavi is referring to statistically average income @ 55k.

Middle class is undefined but I know a few households in Van composed of average wage earners. It does take a couple, and a basement rental, to make it work though.

 

[sdw]

If you look at the data at Statistics Canada, average earnings of a full year, full time worker is $57,600 If you ask that person if they are Middle Class, they will most likely say no.

Taken from CANSIM http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a0...on=0&CII_SuperBtn=Search&lang=eng&typeValue=1
This table was selected http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a2...=202*&tabMode=dataTable&srchLan=-1&p1=1&p2=-1

The Child Care Benefit that all three parties are trying to sell is "Paying for Votes" http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...y=999&View=1&tableID=301&queryID=1&Children=1

The glaring thing about Statistics Canada's income tables is that income has been flat for the period reported in the table. Since the tables only go to $60,000 a year - a number of political parties must be taking that as "Rich" I suppose that's what happens when a "Dream Job" is to be a barista at Starbucks.

 

[badbadboy]

Badboy, Trudeau is also touting a reduction in taxes for the middle class that might offset his other changes to TFSA.

I think honestavi is referring to statistically average income @ 55k.

Middle class is undefined but I know a few households in Van composed of average wage earners. It does take a couple, and a basement rental, to make it work though.

I realize where he was going with his post. Yes the CPP is underfunded and needs an infusion of money to make it viable for the next generation (s). Yes Trudeau is proposing a tax cut but the RRSP and TFSA really are progressive in nature which takes a lot of the burden off of the CPP and OAS.

I needed to take a huge chunk out of my RRSP ten years ago when I started my own business. The taxes involved with that maneuver were painful to say the least. Along comes the TFSA years later and it would have made my investment into my own company an easier transition from being unemployed to self employed.

And a note of clarity honestavi - RRSP and TFSA are NOT Tax Free. They are a tax deferment where you will use the money later and taxed at a presumably lower tax rate.

 

[nickcan]

RRSP and TFSA are NOT Tax Free. They are a tax deferment where you will use the money later and taxed at a presumably lower tax rate.

Not exactly, TFSA is completely tax free when withdrawing unless re-contributing the withdrawal in the same year may result in an over-contribution amount which would be subject to a penalty tax.

http://www.tfsa.gc.ca/

 

[badbadboy]

Sorry, your correct about it being a deferment. I meant tax free savings in the present tense, as growth on the principle is not taxable and in the case of the RRSP there is a significant reduction in taxes owing NOW.

My whole point is that these boutique credits, deductions etc that the Harper government have brought in do NOTHING for the MAJORITY of Canadians. They are catered to a core demographic and no one else.

Again, I know very few average working Canadians who will be affected by these contribution limit increases. Why? They just don't have the funds available.

It just bothers me on afundamental level to see a government who is so blatantly tailoring its policies to help their target demographic and only them.

For instance rather than increase TFSA and RRSP limits they could have chosen to increase CPP contributions either mandatory or voluntary. Rather than introduce income splitting which disproportionately benefits a small percentage of family's, they could have increased the basic personal exception for all.

All these cuts where made with an ideal, typical Conservative voter in mind. Affluent, single income, and probably over 50. That's what bothers me the most, despite the fact that some of these cuts have even been beneficial to me. They disgust me that rather than try and benefit everyone they so blatantly show how little they care about anyone who doesnt fit that demographic.

Their policies do nothing for the majority of Canadians, and even less for young Canadians.

We will just agree to disagree.

As I already mentioned it is "throwing a bone" to the tax base who pony up the majority of the taxes to the system. Younger tax payers do not contribute the same proportion of taxes as older tax payers. This attempts to make it fair for the middle class who are paying the majority of the freight tax wise.

In a perfect world we would all contribute the same amount and receive our fair share BUT we are not equal. That is actually quite Libertarian thinking in general terms. Making everything equal and pay the same taxes plus all the imaginable user fees etc.

Imagine Mulcair and crew win next week. They will be throwing bones to the trade union movement, to industry that supports trade unions and to the base that gets them elected. Is that fair? The non union middle class will feel more taxes most likely and get fewer bones thrown their way which will motivate them to support more centre right the next time around.

It's the way politics are played and have been that way for generations.

 

[marsvolta]

RRSP's are a cash grab by the finance sector. We could be all contributing more to CPP and having a huge fund that actually makes market action because of its size and the strength of its management just like teachers, public servants etc. but then someone got the bright idea to throw the general population to Bay street wolves. Everyone knows that retail investors get the short end of the stick on all fronts.

CPP should be expanded significantly.

 

[marsvolta]

In a perfect world we would all contribute the same amount and receive our fair share BUT we are not equal. That is actually quite Libertarian thinking in general terms. Making everything equal and pay the same taxes plus all the imaginable user fees etc.

are you confusing "libertarian" and "liberal"? because libertarian thought has nothing to do with "equality". but yes, if you like the idea that the less money you make, the more as a percentage of you income you pay in taxes then you are probably a libertarian.

 

[Cock Throppled]

I almost forgot to mention what should be the most obvious point on a board such as this....have all the Con supporters here forgotten C-36? The fact that anyone who posts here can support a party that made it illegal to use the services of an SP is absolutely mind boggling to me. Steven Harper views you as an exploitive criminal, why on earth would you give him your support?

I don't belong to any party; I don't subscribe to any particularly philosophy or system of government beyond being fair, using taxes wisely and taking care of those least able.

In my voting life I've voted Rhino, NDP, Liberal, Conservative and Green.

It bothers me when people are so locked into their particular political beliefs that they remain blind to their party's faults and failures and refuse to even consider a change that might bring new ideas.

 

[badbadboy]

are you confusing "libertarian" and "liberal"? because libertarian thought has nothing to do with "equality". but yes, if you like the idea that the less money you make, the more as a percentage of you income you pay in taxes then you are probably a libertarian.

https://www.libertarian.ca/platform/

Note they are for sex workers and 420 friendly :nod:

 

[sdw]

The 1% own 50% of everything according to a report by Credit Suisse

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/credit-suisse-world-wealth-report-1.3270056

120,000 Ultra Rich with more than 50,000,000
34,000,000 Rich with more than 1,000,000
Collectively the Ultra Rich and Rich own 45.2% of everything while representing only 0.7% of the world's population

... Middle-class wealth

Beyond tabulating the wealth of the super rich, the report examined the wealth of the so-called middle class, the definition of which changes depending on the country.

In the U.S., Credit Suisse says anyone worth between $50,000 and $500,000 would be considered middle class for the purposes of the survey. In some countries, the cut-off is higher, for example, in Switzerland, where the middle class starts at $72,000.

In China, it drops to $28,000. In India, it's at $13,700.

Interestingly, this year marks the first time that China's middle class — numbered at 109 million according to the bank — is larger than America's, which counts for 92 million people.

All in all, the middle class is worth a collective $80.7 trillion, or just under a third of the world's wealth.

On the bottom rung of the global wealth pyramid are 3.4 billion adults – 71 per cent of the world's population — who are worth less than $10,000 US.

109 million "Middle Class" in China with a population of 1,401,586,609 compared to 92 million in the USA which has a population of 320,090,857. The USA is still wealthy compared to the rest of the world.

The population of Canada is 35,749,600 Macleans has a table http://www.macleans.ca/economy/money-economy/are-you-in-the-middle-class/

If a person is in what the table calls "Middle Class", I can see why the political parties think they can buy middle class votes. When you are that poor, every $1,000 helps.

 

[wilde]

RRSP is a deferral of tax while TFSA is not. There is a deduction on contribution and taxed on withdrawal. TFSA is a tax shelter that allows the income earned in the account to be tax free. There is no deduction on contribution and no tax on withdrawal. RRSP tends to benefit the higher income earners in the higher tax brackets whereas TFSA benefits anyone who can afford to save.

 

[sdw]

Another great image that's too good not to share

 

[Cock Throppled]

Well, it looks like members here picked the winner, but favoured the NDP as the second choice.