Ice, some people just don't realize that the option for the alternates is in the lady's roomIceG said:
Death Penalty Poll
- Thread starter IceG
- Start date
no, but it's got nothing to do with feeling sorry for the scumbag.... it's just that the state should not be in the killing business. life imprisonment with no chance of parole works fine for me. and it's just as much of a deterrent, both for the murderer and for others planning same. end of story.
well said Bossman. if you feel that life in jail is the way to go, then i can understand.
i only put up the "forgiveness" angle because i am a Christian and i am NOT A GOOD ENOUGH Chistian yet to be able to forgive all murders.
your point is well noted and maybe i should have added to simple NO, but not based on any religious construct like forgiveness.
BUT THANKS FOR ADDING that note so that all can VOTE no and say not for religious concepts.
i never anticipated any wording would "lead" anyone in such a personal opinion.
THE NO OPTION WAS NOT MEANT TO SOUND TOO LIBERAL. IT WAS A REFLECTION OF MY OWN DEFICIENCY AS A CHRISTIAN.
My apology to NO VOTERS. please feel free to qualify your NO VOTE As you wish.
i only put up the "forgiveness" angle because i am a Christian and i am NOT A GOOD ENOUGH Chistian yet to be able to forgive all murders.
your point is well noted and maybe i should have added to simple NO, but not based on any religious construct like forgiveness.
BUT THANKS FOR ADDING that note so that all can VOTE no and say not for religious concepts.
i never anticipated any wording would "lead" anyone in such a personal opinion.
THE NO OPTION WAS NOT MEANT TO SOUND TOO LIBERAL. IT WAS A REFLECTION OF MY OWN DEFICIENCY AS A CHRISTIAN.
My apology to NO VOTERS. please feel free to qualify your NO VOTE As you wish.
You're right, they should outsource this service and I would be perfectly happy to be the subcontractor.
They should have a referendum and a resulting claim on your tax return. If you vote against the death penalty, then you pay a larger percentage of your gross income in taxes to house them. If you vote for it, you're exempt from that particular tax. It's all trackable by your SIN number and the payment or tax is added on at the time of filing your return. Put your money where your mouth is, you want them to live, you can pay their way.
Yeah well, if that's the case, I hope that going forward, the scumbags target only other scumbags or Christians when they feel the need to rape or murder. That way YOU and your ilk can forgive them because I sure fucking don't.
the death penalty is not a deterrent, but once you execute them they will not harm anyone else. As far as pedophiles are concerned put them in with the general population and let the other cons know what their in for and they have their own sort of justice for people like that and it saves money on the expenses also.
Capital Punishment doesn't lower murder rates, in fact it creates a brutalizing effect in jurisdictions where it is used that causes murder rates to actually increase. In the US, states that don't resort to the death penalty actually have murder rates that are 48-101% lower over the past 20 years than states that use the death penalty. Societies that advocate blood-thirsty vengence don't create gentle, non-violent citizens, they create blood-thirsty, vengeful citizens who are more likely to resort to violence to solve conflict.
If Capital Punishment was effective at making society safer, the United States wouldn't have murder rates that are approximately 3 times higher than Canada and many European countries that don't use Capital Punishment.
If Capital Punishment was effective at making society safer, the United States wouldn't have murder rates that are approximately 3 times higher than Canada and many European countries that don't use Capital Punishment.
this is just ignorant and stupid. if you extend this dumb logic to everything, why should americans who opposed the war in iraq, for example, have to pay for it. they too should get tax exemptions. if i don't want a highway built, i can get a tax exemption for that too. it's absurd and exemplifies the problem with reducing everything to "i don't want to pay taxes" blah blah blah.The Lizard King said:
the fact is, paying for things collectively, whether prisons, highways etc, is just part of the price you pay for living in a civilized society. Most canadians understand that . Too many americans, it seems, don't.
incidentally, lizard king's eagerness to be the executioner speaks volumes.
peace, B50
i don't see how that impacts the argument about taxes and the death penalty one way or the other.
but the best way to answer your question is that justice has to be impartial; i wouldn't want to live in a world where punishment is determined by victims; there'd be no justice, only revenge. and under no circumstances would I want to be the one throwing the switch... what would that make me?
but the best way to answer your question is that justice has to be impartial; i wouldn't want to live in a world where punishment is determined by victims; there'd be no justice, only revenge. and under no circumstances would I want to be the one throwing the switch... what would that make me?
There is a whole group of people in the US that have formed an ever expanding club. They are people who were on death row but lucky for them they found out they were not guilty before they were murdered by the state. For all those that say, so what if a few fall through the cracks, all I say to you is "be my guest you go first" The death penalty is not a deterrent, and worst of all is non reversible when they get things wrong.
One thing that really pisses me off is some special status for police being killed. That is a load of crap!!! Their life is no more valuable than anyone else's. And what do we do to the cops that made up "evidence" that was later turned out to be made up and someone innocent died; we would have to come up with something worse than death I guess. As opposed to the oh sorry but he is already dead now and maybe a slap on the wrist to the cop that was responsible.
I believe pedophiles should be locked up as incurable mental patients. Since I do not believe they can be cured. Who says there has to be some set amount of time they should be in jail, they are sick people and should be treated as such.
One thing that really pisses me off is some special status for police being killed. That is a load of crap!!! Their life is no more valuable than anyone else's. And what do we do to the cops that made up "evidence" that was later turned out to be made up and someone innocent died; we would have to come up with something worse than death I guess. As opposed to the oh sorry but he is already dead now and maybe a slap on the wrist to the cop that was responsible.
I believe pedophiles should be locked up as incurable mental patients. Since I do not believe they can be cured. Who says there has to be some set amount of time they should be in jail, they are sick people and should be treated as such.
Amen to that! I couldn't have said that much better myself!!! I think your name's gonna be on that plaque!!!greenvalley said:
Yeah, a load of crap until some scumbag has a gun to your head and you're crying like a baby for the police to save your pathetic ass. So you don't value the lives of the people who put themselves in harms way, and that could also include firemen and even WWII vets as examples, to protect the public? Amazing...
That particular part doesn't but you didn't answer the question.
I didn't suggest punishment be determined by victims so don't insinuate that. No justice? Are you suggesting that victims are only looking for revenge? Throwing the switch would make you a public servant. Some people choose to serve the public, others decide to do something else with their lives. Your choice would obviously not be to serve the public.
I'm talking about the death penalty so, again, you're attempting to twist what I post to meet your argument. Why don't you start a "sponsor the scumbag" program? That way people such as yourself, who don't believe in the death penalty or want to "forgive" these parasites, can actually finance them for the rest of their lives. I do want to pay taxes, and very well may pay more than you do, but I draw the line at keeping these people alive.
Sure does. I could put a gun to the head of Clifford Olsen or Paul Bernardo, pull the trigger, immediately go out for a nice dinner and return home and sleep like a baby. I'm okay with that and can understand the fact that others wouldn't be. On the other hand, if I was driving down the highway and hit a deer and killed it, I would feel like shit.
It's not even about revenge, it's about these parasites losing the privilege to live and making sure there's absolutely no way the can re-offend, while saving the cost of keeping people alive who clearly do not deserve to be.
Which is why I reserve my opinion to only instances when the evidence is irrefutable and DNA based. A Kelly Ellard, say, would not be sent to the death, while a Paul Bernardo would be.
Whether it's a deterrent is not the issue. I don't care. If I was Boss50 I could use the twisted logic example of speeding. Losing your license for excessive speeding tickets obviously is not a deterrent to some people, just drive around Vancouver and the surrounding area, so why even bother suspending licenses?
Yeah, a load of crap until some scumbag has a gun to your head and you're crying like a baby for the police to save your pathetic ass. So you don't value the lives of the people who put themselves in harms way, and that could also include firemen and even WWII vets as examples, to protect the public? Amazing...
Lizard King you are either a cop or a fool. If you think that those poorly trained twits that we have as police will save your ass you need help. They shot a guy who had a knife 15 times and it was 3 against 1. Meanwhile in Germany they stopped a guy with a samurai sword that had chopped off limbs of people. They only needed pepper spray. Our cops will eventually get there after you are dead if you think that. I remember when me and another guy grabbed a burglar and unfortunately didn't get the other one. It took 45 minutes for them finally grace us with their presence.
I will take one of our military any day instead of the VPD. Especially the ones that train with the SAS. But to mention the VPD with the same breath as the military and the firemen shows just how out of touch with reality you are.
The only thing the VPD is good at is getting away with crimes. Such as abusing law students who dare to take pictures of them hassling squeegee guys. Smashing people teeth in while at the concert riot and saying well I guess he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or maybe finding the lowest guys on the totem poll, drug dealers, to abduct and beat up. They are a corrupt and useless bunch.
The VPD needs an entire top down overhaul. Including the head twit Jamie. I laughed my guts out one time when at a press conference he tried some fear mongering by saying "if only you knew what he knew about terrorism in the city" what a crock of crap. Ever since the police switched over to encrypted radios and the press just can't listen to calls on a scanner and turn up un-announced at crime scenes, things have gone right down hill. Now they hire $100,000 media spin doctors instead of spending the same money to sift out the bad cops. All you had to see was that whole managed media event they pulled at the dakine to see the VPD at its media spinning best. They care more about getting on the news than real police work. Hence the reason we have one of the highest ratios of police and yet an ever escalating crime rate. House B&E’s in Vancouver are averaging 30 to 40 a day, probably higher since that is a police statistic.
Lizard King you are either a cop or a fool. If you think that those poorly trained twits that we have as police will save your ass you need help. They shot a guy who had a knife 15 times and it was 3 against 1. Meanwhile in Germany they stopped a guy with a samurai sword that had chopped off limbs of people. They only needed pepper spray. Our cops will eventually get there after you are dead if you think that. I remember when me and another guy grabbed a burglar and unfortunately didn't get the other one. It took 45 minutes for them finally grace us with their presence.
I will take one of our military any day instead of the VPD. Especially the ones that train with the SAS. But to mention the VPD with the same breath as the military and the firemen shows just how out of touch with reality you are.
The only thing the VPD is good at is getting away with crimes. Such as abusing law students who dare to take pictures of them hassling squeegee guys. Smashing people teeth in while at the concert riot and saying well I guess he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or maybe finding the lowest guys on the totem poll, drug dealers, to abduct and beat up. They are a corrupt and useless bunch.
The VPD needs an entire top down overhaul. Including the head twit Jamie. I laughed my guts out one time when at a press conference he tried some fear mongering by saying "if only you knew what he knew about terrorism in the city" what a crock of crap. Ever since the police switched over to encrypted radios and the press just can't listen to calls on a scanner and turn up un-announced at crime scenes, things have gone right down hill. Now they hire $100,000 media spin doctors instead of spending the same money to sift out the bad cops. All you had to see was that whole managed media event they pulled at the dakine to see the VPD at its media spinning best. They care more about getting on the news than real police work. Hence the reason we have one of the highest ratios of police and yet an ever escalating crime rate. House B&E’s in Vancouver are averaging 30 to 40 a day, probably higher since that is a police statistic.
some other thoughts..
i believe we should increase the "time actually served". in Canada, life imprisonment and make the murderer serve a minimum of say 40-50 years before any parole considerations.
dealing with the "costs" of incarceration. i do believe we need to re-vamp penitentiaries and make them at a minimum, self-sustaining.
my theory: make the prisoners serving > 5 years do some actual work in either a simple "licence plate" making factory or a factory that produces bolts, or whatever. i think that the inmates should work 6 hours a day, get paid like $3.00/hour tax free to save up for supplies or better rations in prison. i then believe that a further $3.00/hour representing a prisoner's "wage" should be placed in a victim's fund for the victim of their crime. just to help with counselling costs or whatever.
so if we "use" these prisoners as 6.00 hour labour, then you like to think that there is some way to make enough profit to ensure the Prison is not relying on too many tax dollars. for example, they could recycle pop bottles or paper into re-usable paper or glass.
i don't believe it would be cruel and unusual punishment to make long serving felons work. this way they could learn to save up to purchase tv credits or even "pay" for some of the university level courses that prisoners are offered.
i believe we should increase the "time actually served". in Canada, life imprisonment and make the murderer serve a minimum of say 40-50 years before any parole considerations.
dealing with the "costs" of incarceration. i do believe we need to re-vamp penitentiaries and make them at a minimum, self-sustaining.
my theory: make the prisoners serving > 5 years do some actual work in either a simple "licence plate" making factory or a factory that produces bolts, or whatever. i think that the inmates should work 6 hours a day, get paid like $3.00/hour tax free to save up for supplies or better rations in prison. i then believe that a further $3.00/hour representing a prisoner's "wage" should be placed in a victim's fund for the victim of their crime. just to help with counselling costs or whatever.
so if we "use" these prisoners as 6.00 hour labour, then you like to think that there is some way to make enough profit to ensure the Prison is not relying on too many tax dollars. for example, they could recycle pop bottles or paper into re-usable paper or glass.
i don't believe it would be cruel and unusual punishment to make long serving felons work. this way they could learn to save up to purchase tv credits or even "pay" for some of the university level courses that prisoners are offered.
IceG you a right about the working in prisons.
If they had kept Okala, they could be working on the farm there growing food for the food banks and themselves. Maybe could have got a greenhouse on there so they could get some training for that industry when people leave that place.
They even had a program where they went out and mowed the lawns of pensioners. It all helps, I think.
If they had kept Okala, they could be working on the farm there growing food for the food banks and themselves. Maybe could have got a greenhouse on there so they could get some training for that industry when people leave that place.
They even had a program where they went out and mowed the lawns of pensioners. It all helps, I think.
OK LK I'll answer the question:
I haven't had a family member killed by a murderer, unless you count WWII. regardless i believe that even if i had, i would want the murder to enjoy a nice miserable life (without possibility of parole) in prison. the state should NOT be in the killing business, end of story.
as for your taxes, gimme a break. You want a $20 refund at the end of the year for housing murderers instead of executing them, i'll send it to you myself. god it's annoying when people talk about "their" tax dollars as if they are funding programs by themselves. How much do you think it costs to house all the murderers in Canada. $100 million? 1 billion? how much of that comes out of your pocket? didly squat.
and regarding pulling the switch, given that you aren't able to do that, what do you do with all that suppressed rage?
peace B50
I haven't had a family member killed by a murderer, unless you count WWII. regardless i believe that even if i had, i would want the murder to enjoy a nice miserable life (without possibility of parole) in prison. the state should NOT be in the killing business, end of story.
as for your taxes, gimme a break. You want a $20 refund at the end of the year for housing murderers instead of executing them, i'll send it to you myself. god it's annoying when people talk about "their" tax dollars as if they are funding programs by themselves. How much do you think it costs to house all the murderers in Canada. $100 million? 1 billion? how much of that comes out of your pocket? didly squat.
and regarding pulling the switch, given that you aren't able to do that, what do you do with all that suppressed rage?
peace B50
So you judge the whole policing community based on an isolated incident? No, this does not happen frequently and no, not all police officers respond that way.
So let's feed society's unfortunate, food grown and prepared by murderer's?
Sure, lob some nice easy target a potential re-offender's way. Real cute. It's good to see that they provide internet services to trailer parks now but does your mommy and daddy know you were using the internet today?
You know, you're right. Thanks for talking some sense into me, I really appreciate it. After all, it's not as though we could put that money towards something useful for the law abiding public (ie: potential victims)...something like...well...HEALTHCARE!
I volunteer my spare time to charity!
