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Lo-ki

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2011
4,019
2,649
113
Check your closet..:)
Homeless in Abbotsford, B.C., win right to camp outside

A homeless community in British Columbia’s Fraser Valley has won the right to camp overnight in city parks in a legal victory that one advocate says matters for all of Canada.

B.C. Supreme Court Chief Justice Christopher Hinkson ruled on Wednesday that homeless people in Abbotsford are allowed to erect temporary shelters in parkland between 7 p.m. and 9 a.m. because of a lack of accessible shelter space in the city.

“What’s clear from today’s judgment is that bylaws across the country that criminalize people on the street are not constitutional,” said DJ Larkin, a lawyer with Pivot Legal Society, an advocacy organization that represented a homeless group in the case.

“The ball is now in the municipality’s court, and frankly the whole nation is watching.”

Hinkson’s ruling struck down a controversial bylaw banning temporary shelters in local parks and dismissed Abbotsford’s request for a permanent injunction against homeless encampments on city property.

The legal action by Abbotsford was the latest attempt to evict homeless campers that began with issuing bylaw notices, but escalated to spreading pepper spray and chicken manure on the camps and finally damaging or disposing of tents and other personal property.

Hinkson issued a harsh rebuke against the city, calling its actions “disgraceful and worthy of the court’s disapproval.”

The 81-page decision found that a prohibition on camping breached the homeless people’s charter rights to life, liberty and the security of person.

“To criminalize people for being in a park overnight, to stop them from setting up a shelter, is a violation of their rights,” said Larkin.

“To constantly displace people puts their health and safety at risk. It creates inordinate psychological stress and those are not laws that can be upheld in this country.

Abbotsford Mayor Henry Braun said the city would have to review the decision before deciding whether to appeal.

The judge rejected the city’s claim that the campers prefer to live outside, countering the assertion that there are more than enough shelter places to house Abbotsford’s homeless.

“Some of them, they just want to be left alone: ‘Leave me alone, I want to camp.’ And they use that term: camping.” said Braun. “I’m not sure what to do with that.”

Rich Coleman, B.C.’s minister in charge of housing, said the current Abbotsford council is compassionate, unlike the previous council, which “didn’t treat the homeless situation particularly well.”

He said council is now working with the province on construction and planning of a number of shelter buildings and the city is developing a cold-weather strategy.

Wednesday’s ruling made frequent reference to a similar 2009 B.C. Court of Appeal decision that upheld the right of homeless people in Victoria to erect temporary shelters in city parks.

Responding to the Abbotsford decision, University of British Columbia law Prof. Margot Young said she was disappointed municipalities in B.C. have failed to act proactively to respond to the constitutional concerns raised in the Victoria case.

“One would have hoped that municipal governments ... would have said, ‘Aha, we’ve got basically that same law on our books. So let’s do the decent thing and respect the constitution without having to be taken to the courts,“’ said Young.
 

luvsdaty

Well-known member
Not really sure how much of the nation is watching? Same thing happened here in Victoria a few years ago. A fella by the name of David Johnson kept getting arrested and challenged the legality of not being able to sleep in public parks. He eventually won and once his 15 minutes in the spot light where used up, he was never to be heard from again.Nothings really changed here in Victoria. The hard to house are still sleeping outdoors which to me is quite sad considering all the wealth that we have in this country.
 

*emmanuelle

Victoria, B.C.
Aug 1, 2008
818
19
18
We've had this law for a couple years here in Victoria. It makes so much sense!
The homeless get a much nicer and quieter place to sleep (with public bathrooms and water fountains) and the business owners don't have people sleeping on their doorsteps when they're opening in the morning.
Not a solution to homelessness by any means, but better than sleeping on the city streets I think.
 

Jessikitten

New member
Aug 1, 2015
13
0
1
Victoria
Being able to sleep outside should be a basic human right in Canada. Some argue that it ruins parks for tax paying citizens. This ignores the fact that many poor people either are or have been tax payers and are most definitely citizens who contribute to communities in valuable ways. Though these contributions may not always be quantifiable it doesn't mean that they are any less valuable. I'm so happy that these people get to keep their homes.
 

Sonny

Senior Member
Sep 12, 2004
3,731
220
63
I'm so happy that these people get to keep their homes.
A tent in a park doesn't meet my definition of a "home", although it does suffice as a most basic of shelter.
Homelessness itself is the problem, the underlying causes need to be addressed.
In addition, proper housing in a warm, dry building environment is needed, not "homes" in a public park.
 

Jessikitten

New member
Aug 1, 2015
13
0
1
Victoria
A tent in a park doesn't meet my definition of a "home", although it does suffice as a most basic of shelter.
Homelessness itself is the problem, the underlying causes need to be addressed.
In addition, proper housing in a warm, dry building environment is needed, not "homes" in a public park.
It may not mean "home" to you but for many it does. Some people have been living outside for so long that they are unable to live inside.
 

ddcanz

curmudgeon
Feb 27, 2012
2,684
19
38
right here and now
Those that bitch about this are probably just NIMBY fuck heads.
Sure, we all like our parks "pristine", but the reality has changed folks. Not pointing fingers at those who have commented so far here, but there needs to be more compassion FFS.
Jesskitten makes some valid points.
"There but for the grace of God go I"
:)
 

Caramel

Banned
Dec 21, 2011
1,081
1
0
the only issue I have with this is the drug mess they would make, thats what the judge said about it anyway and I didn't think right away that these homeless people were users until I read that part on an article on CKNW.

Dirty needles, feces, garbage lighters foil drug packages etc. If they would clean up the mess or keep it contained that would be better...can't imagine being a neighbour of that kind of mess.

Do homeless shelters allow residents to use drugs or bring drugs inside? If not, maybe that is a key reason why they don't want to be inside the shelter.


However, the findings of the judge also concluded that the conditions found at the Gladys Avenue Camp were not safe enough for the camp to be kept going 24/7:

“The evidence about the Gladys Avenue Camp satisfies me that it is unsafe for the homeless and other residents of the City to permit any sustained occupation of a particular space by the homeless. The sustained presence of the homeless at the Gladys Avenue Camp has resulted in the accumulation of between 100 and 500 used syringes in a matter of days, human feces and rotting garbage left throughout the encampment, the presence of rats, and violence and criminal activity following the establishment of the encampment.”Chief Justice Hinkson concluded that allowing the City’s homeless to set up camps overnight between the hours of 7pm and 9am would “reasonably balance the needs of the homeless and the rights of other residents of the City.”
http://www.cknw.com/2015/10/21/abbotsford-loses-court-battle-to-shut-down-homeless-camp/

Otherwise, I'm totally for it and believe citizens and humans should have the right to sleep outdoors if they don't have a home.
 

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
2,089
0
36
Certainly not a long term solution. Maybe the city can sell the park to condo developers......or I guess townhouse developers in the valley.
 

sdw

New member
Jul 14, 2005
2,185
0
0
the only issue I have with this is the drug mess they would make, thats what the judge said about it anyway and I didn't think right away that these homeless people were users until I read that part on an article on CKNW.

Dirty needles, feces, garbage lighters foil drug packages etc. If they would clean up the mess or keep it contained that would be better...can't imagine being a neighbour of that kind of mess.

Do homeless shelters allow residents to use drugs or bring drugs inside? If not, maybe that is a key reason why they don't want to be inside the shelter.




http://www.cknw.com/2015/10/21/abbotsford-loses-court-battle-to-shut-down-homeless-camp/

Otherwise, I'm totally for it and believe citizens and humans should have the right to sleep outdoors if they don't have a home.
The people that run shelters impose rules:
The homeless that wish to use the shelter must be there by a certain time. Usually 6:00PM
The homeless may not bring into the shelter anything but themselves. Most shelters have nowhere to store a person's stuff.
The homeless may not consume anything in the shelter. Most shelters do not provide a meal.

Some of the shelters that are financially supported by BC Housing are quite good. However, there are not many spaces available.
http://www.bchousing.org/Options/Emergency_Housing/ESP

The Salvation Army shelter in Abbotsford is quite good. http://www.careandshare.ca/shelter
However there are only 20 beds available.

In Burnaby, there isn't much shelter available. The McGill Library was allowing the homeless to camp, but some asshole at Parks decided to send a garbage truck and remove all of their stuff. By the time the people that walk for exercise every morning had managed to get the RCMP there and explain what was happening - the homeless people's stuff was all gone. The Mayor and Council weren't all that concerned about the homeless people's suffering - which is why I can't vote NDP or their daughter organization BCA.

The public washrooms at Confederation Park are locked during the night. Of course the homeless have to defecate somewhere. If the politicians want me to listen to their complaints about it - the answer is simple, unlock the washrooms.

What a lot of people are against is that the homeless people's "stuff" isn't beautiful and a person that has nowhere to shower and shave is definitely not beautiful.

The cause of the problem, of course, is property value. It's difficult to amass the amount of money necessary to establish a shelter.
 

Caramel

Banned
Dec 21, 2011
1,081
1
0
The people that run shelters impose rules:
The homeless that wish to use the shelter must be there by a certain time. Usually 6:00PM
The homeless may not bring into the shelter anything but themselves. Most shelters have nowhere to store a person's stuff.
The homeless may not consume anything in the shelter. Most shelters do not provide a meal.

Some of the shelters that are financially supported by BC Housing are quite good. However, there are not many spaces available.
http://www.bchousing.org/Options/Emergency_Housing/ESP

The Salvation Army shelter in Abbotsford is quite good. http://www.careandshare.ca/shelter
However there are only 20 beds available.

In Burnaby, there isn't much shelter available. The McGill Library was allowing the homeless to camp, but some asshole at Parks decided to send a garbage truck and remove all of their stuff. By the time the people that walk for exercise every morning had managed to get the RCMP there and explain what was happening - the homeless people's stuff was all gone. The Mayor and Council weren't all that concerned about the homeless people's suffering - which is why I can't vote NDP or their daughter organization BCA.

The public washrooms at Confederation Park are locked during the night. Of course the homeless have to defecate somewhere. If the politicians want me to listen to their complaints about it - the answer is simple, unlock the washrooms.

What a lot of people are against is that the homeless people's "stuff" isn't beautiful and a person that has nowhere to shower and shave is definitely not beautiful.

The cause of the problem, of course, is property value. It's difficult to amass the amount of money necessary to establish a shelter.
oh I know all about how there aren't many beds available or enough space etc. I get that, I was just wondering if homeless shelters in general are lenient and allow people to do private things like that. In any case, though...they should clean up after themselves if they are going to be leaving hazardous stuff laying around, unless they are mentally incompetent, don't see any excuses for it. It's just totally inconsiderate imo.
 

Caramel

Banned
Dec 21, 2011
1,081
1
0
The homeless problem we have here on the coast is a country-wide problem. So many migrate here from the rest of Canada thats why it's such an issue. It should be the federal governments responsibility to build supportive housing. So many homeless are hard to house those people need homes with 24/7 staff on the premises who are trained to deal with behaviour issues. Shelters and living in parks are not solutions. IDK the solution to the drug problem :confused:.... building more detoxes and rehabs won't solve the problem. People will only come off drugs when they're good and ready and decide to on their own, sure they need support then but nobody can force a drug addict off drugs except the drug addict them self.
detox and rehab would be too drastic and not realistic, maybe just some garbage disposal items or something to help keep it cleaner & safer, and not a pig stye of infectious and dangerous garbage & feces. Even a porta potty maybe...
 
Jul 22, 2013
224
1
0
I still remember a time that I had to wait till my direct deposit kicked in at 1am so I could get a motel. I pulled into a park, and locked my car doors, and curled up in the back seat to catch some shut eye. About 2 hours later, I got a rude awakening from the police that I couldn't sleep in my truck. It scared the crap out of me, and I drove away. So, if you've ever been in a situation, and had no place to stay, no money, no options, it is truly a devastating situation. The shelters were full, the options were non existent, and hope was low. This was not a situation of safe injection sites, or drug use, but that of someone that just ran into bad luck and couldn't find a safe place to stay for a bit.

I got a place that night, but swore that would never happen again.
 
L

Larry Storch

For a year and a half I lived in my Chevy S-10 pick up and a storage locker. For those of you who don't know an S-10 is a very small truck. Fortunately it had a six foot box and a canopy. I was able to put a foamy and a sleeping bag in the back. When it got cold I slept in my locker. Stacks of cardboard, foamy, sleeping bag and long underwear. You learn to get up and dress fast in those conditions. I was still working at the time so had access to running water etc. and was able to eat properly. Had nothing to do with drugs, alcohol, gambling etc. I got involved with someone who burned me very bad financially. It took time to get back on my feet. Nobody knew my situation. I made sure I parked in rural areas and my locker was not located in town. I was luckier than most. I wasn't living as rough as some I had seen and was able to help them out from time to time. When you are spending a LOT of time just wandering around town, you begin to recognize others in the same situation.
When I hear the attitude some people and municipalities have toward people who have no place to live it pisses me off! Why the fuck should people have to go to court to be able to sleep someplace? Fortunately the perception is changing, gradually. People are beginning to understand that you don't have to be a "junkie" or a "drunk" or a "loser" to be on the street. More often than not they are dealing with severe mental health problems. I think youtube is helping a lot. People are telling their stories and in the process becoming more 'human'. When you know how they ended up there and how they are surviving, you understand that they are not just some figure standing on a corner or sleeping in a doorway.
There are a few people in my town whom I met when I had no place to live (I don't like the word "homeless", it's used so often it's become almost meaningless and conjures up a negative image.), I do what I can to help them when I can. I donate regularly to a small group that is out on the street with a van handing out food, clothing and sleeping bags. They do what they can to direct people to what help is available by the city, which isn't much incidentally.

The solution is painfully obvious:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/medicine-hat-on-brink-of-ending-homelessness-mayor-says-1.2644074

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-state-may-be-the-first-to-end-homelessness-for-good-2015-2

More often than not it's NIMBYism and political will that gets in the way.
Most of us aren't that far away from being on the street. All it takes is a health problem or a fairly temporary financial set back and there you are.

If you haven't been there, you think it can't happen to you.

Don't kid yourself.
 
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