Bill C - 328

[Metaxa]

Bill C -238 was introduced by the Conservatives. It would have increased the penalties under the Criminal Code for offences related to illegally imported fire arms. Both the Liberals and the NDP voted against it. I didn’t see a word about it from the CBC or Globe and Mail, who are both quick to to promote anything that paints the Conservatives as pro gun.

Why haven’t the anti gun zealots had to explain why they voted against anti gun legislation?

 

[80watts]

Right now the aim is to maintain the status quo.... no upsets. Get through covid crap and bring back touching.... get it....
Also in politics controversial agenda with minority governments can be the next election issue. The overall theme is to tread lightly, hoping that everyone else dosn't carry a big stick....

 

[thodisipagal]

An interesting issue.

We have to look at the nuances as to why the Liberals and NDP voted against Bill C-238. Without such perspective, it would seem inexplicable why Liberals and the NDP, who are for gun control, would vote down this Bill.

Liberals have made two arguments, when voting against this Bill:

1. Trudeau government announced in May 2020 a comprehensive bill banning 1,500 different types of assault-style firearms, that would put a check on assault-style gun proliferation anyway.
2. Bill C-238 would increase the mandatory sentencing of offenders and make release on bail more onerous, increasing the risk of making the life difficult for rural farmers who may be wrongfully apprehended for importing firearms they need.

I'm not sure between the two above reasons, which one weighed more for the Liberals and NDP to vote against this private member bill introduced by the CPC MP Bob Soraya.

I'm open to be informed and educated by more knowledgeable PERB members.

 

[Amerix]

I'd guess the Liberals and the NDP want to ban all guns from law abiding citizens instead of singling out the illegal guns held primarily by criminal gangs (and used in the vast majority of crimes involving guns). But I'm a cynic.

 

[nwtl]

Bill C -238 was introduced by the Conservatives. It would have increased the penalties under the Criminal Code for offences related to illegally imported fire arms. Both the Liberals and the NDP voted against it. I didn’t see a word about it from the CBC or Globe and Mail, who are both quick to to promote anything that paints the Conservatives as pro gun.

Why haven’t the anti gun zealots had to explain why they voted against anti gun legislation?

Likely because the anti gun crowd somehow believes criminals use legal guns to commit crimes.

 

[overdone]

An interesting issue.

We have to look at the nuances as to why the Liberals and NDP voted against Bill C-238. Without such perspective, it would seem inexplicable why Liberals and the NDP, who are for gun control, would vote down this Bill.

Liberals have made two arguments, when voting against this Bill:

1. Trudeau government announced in May 2020 a comprehensive bill banning 1,500 different types of assault-style firearms, that would put a check on assault-style gun proliferation anyway.
2. Bill C-238 would increase the mandatory sentencing of offenders and make release on bail more onerous, increasing the risk of making the life difficult for rural farmers who may be wrongfully apprehended for importing firearms they need.

I'm not sure between the two above reasons, which one weighed more for the Liberals and NDP to vote against this private member bill introduced by the CPC MP Bob Soraya.

I'm open to be informed and educated by more knowledgeable PERB members.

lol, where do you come up with this verbal diarrhea? lol

assault-style firearms, we don't have assault firearms in Canada

they're black, the same colour as an AR-15, full auto, which you can't buy here

similar stock style, but still semi-auto

just like hundreds of other guns that function exactly the same way

but don't scare the twitter idiots, SJW, you know, people with no real knowledge on any subject

they just know they are right about everything, you just need to accept it as a fact

you can't buy a fully automatic weapon in Canada, that is a lie

there is no proliferation to stop, there never has been

it's superficial semantics to play to the ignorant in our society who are too stupid to glance past the headline

none of the guns they are banning are being used to kill people, commit crimes

and even more absurd

your statement about Farmers importing firearms?

you clearly don't have any idea how things work

for an individual to import a gun into Canada, it's not simple

plus what kind of idiot would go thru the hassle when there are these places called gun stores?

not to mention what kind of firearm do you think farmers need? for fuck sakes!!!

what do you think they are trying to take down?

Rhinos?

Elephants?

tigers?



cause any common hunting rifle are still available, that function, same calibers, as the scary black ones, despite the stupidity of the virtually signalling Trudeau, will take down a bear/wolf/coyote

cause people hunt all those with regular guns already

some farmers even use them too, haha

plenty of calibers to choose from


you're comments are so silly, it's just a sign of how out of touch with facts people are

farmers importing guns, lol

guess they got to fill all that down time somehow

 

[nwtl]

lol, where do you come up with this verbal diarrhea? lol

assault-style firearms, we don't have assault firearms in Canada

they're black, the same colour as an AR-15, full auto, which you can't buy here

similar stock style, but still semi-auto

just like hundreds of other guns that function exactly the same way

but don't scare the twitter idiots, SJW, you know, people with no real knowledge on any subject

they just know they are right about everything, you just need to accept it as a fact

you can't buy a fully automatic weapon in Canada, that is a lie

there is no proliferation to stop, there never has been

it's superficial semantics to play to the ignorant in our society who are too stupid to glance past the headline

none of the guns they are banning are being used to kill people, commit crimes

and even more absurd

your statement about Farmers importing firearms?

you clearly don't have any idea how things work

for an individual to import a gun into Canada, it's not simple

plus what kind of idiot would go thru the hassle when there are these places called gun stores?

not to mention what kind of firearm do you think farmers need? for fuck sakes!!!

what do you think they are trying to take down?

Rhinos?

Elephants?

tigers?



cause any common hunting rifle are still available, that function, same calibers, as the scary black ones, despite the stupidity of the virtually signalling Trudeau, will take down a bear/wolf/coyote

cause people hunt all those with regular guns already

some farmers even use them too, haha

plenty of calibers to choose from


you're comments are so silly, it's just a sign of how out of touch with facts people are

farmers importing guns, lol

guess they got to fill all that down time somehow

I mean the man said he was open to be informed and educated by more knowledgeable PERB members.

 

[vulkanis]

An interesting issue.

We have to look at the nuances as to why the Liberals and NDP voted against Bill C-238. Without such perspective, it would seem inexplicable why Liberals and the NDP, who are for gun control, would vote down this Bill.

Liberals have made two arguments, when voting against this Bill:

1. Trudeau government announced in May 2020 a comprehensive bill banning 1,500 different types of assault-style firearms, that would put a check on assault-style gun proliferation anyway.
2. Bill C-238 would increase the mandatory sentencing of offenders and make release on bail more onerous, increasing the risk of making the life difficult for rural farmers who may be wrongfully apprehended for importing firearms they need.

I'm not sure between the two above reasons, which one weighed more for the Liberals and NDP to vote against this private member bill introduced by the CPC MP Bob Soraya.

I'm open to be informed and educated by more knowledgeable PERB members.

I think the main argument for the Liberals and NDP voting against this is that they way it is written would be deemed unconstitutional at the Supreme Court level, as past proposed legislation has failed due to the similar language used.

The reverse-onus on pre-trial custody (bail) is also a point of contention.

I agree that targeting criminals vs law-abiding citizens should be the goal, but making laws aren't easy.

You can read MPs arguments and explanations here:
Bill C-238 | openparliament.ca

 

[vulkanis]

lol, where do you come up with this verbal diarrhea? lol

assault-style firearms, we don't have assault firearms in Canada

they're black, the same colour as an AR-15, full auto, which you can't buy here

similar stock style, but still semi-auto

just like hundreds of other guns that function exactly the same way

but don't scare the twitter idiots, SJW, you know, people with no real knowledge on any subject

they just know they are right about everything, you just need to accept it as a fact

you can't buy a fully automatic weapon in Canada, that is a lie

there is no proliferation to stop, there never has been

it's superficial semantics to play to the ignorant in our society who are too stupid to glance past the headline

none of the guns they are banning are being used to kill people, commit crimes

and even more absurd

your statement about Farmers importing firearms?

you clearly don't have any idea how things work

for an individual to import a gun into Canada, it's not simple

plus what kind of idiot would go thru the hassle when there are these places called gun stores?

not to mention what kind of firearm do you think farmers need? for fuck sakes!!!

what do you think they are trying to take down?

Rhinos?

Elephants?

tigers?



cause any common hunting rifle are still available, that function, same calibers, as the scary black ones, despite the stupidity of the virtually signalling Trudeau, will take down a bear/wolf/coyote

cause people hunt all those with regular guns already

some farmers even use them too, haha

plenty of calibers to choose from


you're comments are so silly, it's just a sign of how out of touch with facts people are

farmers importing guns, lol

guess they got to fill all that down time somehow

I think you are attributing the paraphrasing of what the opposition parties have said as what thodispagal is saying or believes. Based on my second-language English reading comprehension skills, I don't believe there was much personal opinion offered by the post you are quoting.

Also, some good points (I agree with a lot of them) against the government's current gun legislation, however, the thread is about Bill C-238 (not 328, guess the OP can't fix the title).

 

[marsvolta]

lol, where do you come up with this verbal diarrhea? lol

assault-style firearms, we don't have assault firearms in Canada

they're black, the same colour as an AR-15, full auto, which you can't buy here

similar stock style, but still semi-auto

just like hundreds of other guns that function exactly the same way

but don't scare the twitter idiots, SJW, you know, people with no real knowledge on any subject

they just know they are right about everything, you just need to accept it as a fact

you can't buy a fully automatic weapon in Canada, that is a lie

there is no proliferation to stop, there never has been

it's superficial semantics to play to the ignorant in our society who are too stupid to glance past the headline

none of the guns they are banning are being used to kill people, commit crimes

and even more absurd

your statement about Farmers importing firearms?

you clearly don't have any idea how things work

for an individual to import a gun into Canada, it's not simple

plus what kind of idiot would go thru the hassle when there are these places called gun stores?

not to mention what kind of firearm do you think farmers need? for fuck sakes!!!

what do you think they are trying to take down?

Rhinos?

Elephants?

tigers?



cause any common hunting rifle are still available, that function, same calibers, as the scary black ones, despite the stupidity of the virtually signalling Trudeau, will take down a bear/wolf/coyote

cause people hunt all those with regular guns already

some farmers even use them too, haha

plenty of calibers to choose from


you're comments are so silly, it's just a sign of how out of touch with facts people are

farmers importing guns, lol

guess they got to fill all that down time somehow

totally uncalled for.

 

[sybian]

I posses a prohibited firearms lifetime permit, and also a carry permit....even most law enforcement don’t have a prohibited....they are very rare.
I can’t even buy a full auto weapon...I’m also a Rancher, and have never imported a firearm, what I need as tools for my trade ,is available right here.
Having said that, you can purchase assault “ style “ or “model “ firearms that are semi auto, instead of fully automatic, and then purchase the modifications kit to bring the weapon to full auto, or military standard....if you can get them through Canadian customs.
If you know a good machinist\gunsmith, they are practically capable of modifying anything, particularly a weapon that was designed to be both full and/or semi auto....it’s an easy transfer of function.
I think perhaps that is what should be addressed, is the weapons that are easily modified into assault weapons...they have one use, and that’s to kill people, a farmer has no use for such a firearm.
Good luck if you get caught with that full auto human killer, and try telling the Federal Judge “ I’m just a harmless collector “
......and for the record, assault weapons already are illegal, and in my opinion it was a cheap way for a useless government to make headlines, rally unknowing voters, by passing legislation that already exists. What needs to be addressed is the borderline weapons, that can be modified getting parts from our gun nut southern neighbours, that love to spew their right to bear arms.

I have absolutely no issue with increasing the penalties when it comes to importing illegal firearms, but the laws should include modification or military auto kits......AND penalties for the trades people who do the work, either professional, or civilian.
But what do I know?....I’m not in Government.

 

[Lo-ki]

In my beginning days in the Military we had the FN-C1 ..... 7.62 mm full metal jacket.
You could kill your foe hiding behind a tree at 200 yards.
Then we went to the plastic matell M16 version for Canada C7 5.56 mm pee shooter.
BTW the FN-C1 could be turned fully automatic with a paper match from a book of matches.

 

[sybian]

In my beginning days in the Military we had the FN-C1 ..... 7.62 mm full metal jacket.
You could kill your foe hiding behind a tree at 200 yards.
Then we went to the plastic matell M16 version for Canada C7 5.56 mm pee shooter.
BTW the FN-C1 could be turned fully automatic with a paper match from a book of matches.

Yeah but we will keep that match modification just between us....and it’s a wussy Matell pea shooter anyways
The FN was a real workhorse....I think I still have some FMJ’s kicking around here some place

 

[masterblaster]

In my beginning days in the Military we had the FN-C1 ..... 7.62 mm full metal jacket.
You could kill your foe hiding behind a tree at 200 yards.
Then we went to the plastic matell M16 version for Canada C7 5.56 mm pee shooter.
BTW the FN-C1 could be turned fully automatic with a paper match from a book of matches.

Back when I was younger, a Gevelot semi automatic 22 was a popular gun. Same thing could be done with it to turn it into an automatic.

 

[masterblaster]

Went to shooting range one time and tried an H&K .308 assault rifle. Seriously powerful rifle.

 

[sybian]

Went to shooting range one time and tried an H&K .308 assault rifle. Seriously powerful rifle.

The .308 is a superior round as it’s a more modern caliber.
In my prime I was capable of drilling through the centre of a loony at 350-425 yards, with a .308 ( ,as long as the barrel was cool, and the wind was gentle......)if I knew the position of the coin on the backboard.....I couldn’t see the target, but I knew it’s position, and could centre the round almost every time.
when shooting a 30-06, or 30-30 you in fact could be firing a weapon well over one hundred years old, and not made as well as modern firearms, or simply worn out to the point of being dangerous.
The .308 hasn’t been around as long....the factories, or hand loader can heat up the round, and not worry to much about variance.
I have an ancient extensive collection of carbine saddle ring Winchester rifles....one of them was splitting the shells when fired....firing pin was removed and stuck inside the cavity of the stock, and is simply a decoration piece, as its 140 years old

For the record I don’t really have a love affair with guns, the collection is more about who owned them, their stories in different conflicts....or the battle scars they’ve acquired over their history.....something I have in common with them.

 

[CanineCowboy]

So basically the thread devolves into a glorification of assault/battle rifles, how powerful they are and how easily they can be modified to be fully automatic ... And then you wonder why gun control/bans are so popular with the public.

I haven't fired a gun since I was a kid and don't need to relive the experience. I am not an armoured car guard, a soldier, a police officer or in corrections and I have never felt that I needed a weapon to protect myself in an urban environment or in the back country ... And I have been robbed at gunpoint once in my life.

 

[masterblaster]

The .308 is a superior round as it’s a more modern caliber.
In my prime I was capable of drilling through the centre of a loony at 350-425 yards, with a .308 ( ,as long as the barrel was cool, and the wind was gentle......)if I knew the position of the coin on the backboard.....I couldn’t see the target, but I knew it’s position, and could centre the round almost every time.
when shooting a 30-06, or 30-30 you in fact could be firing a weapon well over one hundred years old, and not made as well as modern firearms, or simply worn out to the point of being dangerous.
The .308 hasn’t been around as long....the factories, or hand loader can heat up the round, and not worry to much about variance.
I have an ancient extensive collection of carbine saddle ring Winchester rifles....one of them was splitting the shells when fired....firing pin was removed and stuck inside the cavity of the stock, and is simply a decoration piece, as its 140 years old

For the record I don’t really have a love affair with guns, the collection is more about who owned them, their stories in different conflicts....or the battle scars they’ve acquired over their history.....something I have in common with them.

Have a friend that was into target shooting some years ago, he lived out in the country so he had lots of room. He had a custom made .300 calibre single shot target rifle. He had a 700 yd range setup. I put three rounds in an area about the size of a saucer, didn’t think that was too bad. His grouping was closer but I don’t recall by how much.

 

[sybian]

So basically the thread devolves into a glorification of assault/battle rifles, how powerful they are and how easily they can be modified to be fully automatic ... And then you wonder why gun control/bans are so popular with the public.

I haven't fired a gun since I was a kid and don't need to relive the experience. I am not an armoured car guard, a soldier, a police officer or in corrections and I have never felt that I needed a weapon to protect myself in an urban environment or in the back country ... And I have been robbed at gunpoint once in my life.

Speaking for myself only here.
If you take the time to read to the end of my post.....you’ll see that I don’t glorify them.
i think it’s fantastic you can live a life without the need for firearms, unfortunately for some of us that isn’t the case, they are a necessity to protect livestock, putting animals out of their misery in a humane way, which is required by law...or to protect loved ones , or my own welfare, when law enforcement is MORE than two hours away.

I’ve carried assault rifles into battle, they where a tool to survive a conflict, and defend freedoms, and those rifles that men or women who carried them, fought for your right to have that opinion you’ve stated here....and live in your urban environment in relative safety ....Your freedoms where not free, someone else pulled the trigger, or fought that battle for you.

im not attacking you, or your right to have the opinions you may have....I’m simply trying to point out another train of thought that you may not have considered.

 

[masterblaster]

I haven't fired a gun since I was a kid and don't need to relive the experience.

Well that’s a surprise. Said no one ever.