Being busted by LE

[storm rider]

To the OP...sorry you have had this shit mist sprayed upon you.....nasty situation to say the least but you have gotten some good advice and you should wind up on your feet.

My advice is.....DONT MESS WITH SW's.....IT IS NOT WORTH IT.

Just sayin.

SR

 

[knight rider]

I know you said it was Kingsway, was it in Burnaby? If so you need to fight it and you will probably win. The horsemen will fuck it up for certain. Call the Legal Services Society and get a retired lawyer doing duty council work. They will have years of experience and will be doing it in the interest of the greater good.

Beleive me the police love doing this kind of sting because the offenders are just horny dudes. They aren't going to mess with the HA or UN gang because those are some bad dudes.

It actually happened on the vancouver side of kingsway so it was VPD and I actually circled block a few times because I was nervous about the whole SW thing and as you know I was right!...really gotta start listening to the voice in my big head!

 

[personalmale]

Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't. ~Pete Seeger

As embarrassing as this was and wanting to keep those in the know down to the minimum, I'd talk to a lawyer. You've already admitted to the arresting officer that you knew what you were doing was illegal. I'm sure that was recorded as well. It's like when you're pulled over for speeding and you're asked, "Do you know why you're being stopped?" Answer No. 1 - speeding? Wrong! Answer No. 2 - most gentlemanly driver? Right!

You took a chance and chatted up the wrong lady, willing to take another chance? So far the lady luck hasn't been your friend.

 

[jamesinlondon]

Don't underestimate the power of the police! Get the best criminal lawyer you can find!

 

[suPERB]

sorry to hear of your misfortune

 

[treveller]

Has someone already mentioned this? What you did may have been illegal but that law has already been struck down in Ontario. The appeal decision should be out soon.

Also, if the police are playing games, Johns can play games as well. Let us know what the police woman looks like (if it was a police woman) and we can all visit her on the street for a friendly, lawful chat.

The best defence is a good offence (sometimes).

Uncleg, Alinburnaby, this probably won’t help knight rider but what does the woman working for the police have to avoid doing while she encourages you to commit a criminal offence and what does she have to get you to do in order to make a conviction likely?

I expect the police have some play books they use for guidance in this sort of thing. Are they available anywhere?

 

[vancity_cowboy]

Actually the law is that she can lie to you. So, if you ask her "are you a cop", she's allowed to lie. She's allowed to be verbally suggestive, she's allowed to state a price. Most teams will swoop in before she enters the vehicle, officer safety - not because she's not allowed to. She'll be wired and the conversation is evidence.

is copping a free feel an adequate measure to take to prove that she didn't behave appropriately to get a successful arrest?

is there ANYTHING you can do to screen a potential cop or 'forced' sw witness?

what is the likelihoood of a lawyer getting you off in exchange for voluntary attendance at johns school?

 

[uncleg]

Has someone already mentioned this? What you did may have been illegal but that law has already been struck down in Ontario. The appeal decision should be out soon.

Also, if the police are playing games, Johns can play games as well. Let us know what the police woman looks like (if it was a police woman) and we can all visit her on the street for a friendly, lawful chat.

The best defence is a good offence (sometimes).

Uncleg, Alinburnaby, this probably won’t help knight rider but what does the woman working for the police have to avoid doing while she encourages you to commit a criminal offence and what does she have to get you to do in order to make a conviction likely?

I expect the police have some play books they use for guidance in this sort of thing. Are they available anywhere?

is copping a free feel an adequate measure to take to prove that she didn't behave appropriately to get a successful arrest?

is there ANYTHING you can do to screen a potential cop or 'forced' sw witness?

what is the likelihoood of a lawyer getting you off in exchange for voluntary attendance at johns school?

The rules they are supposed to play by are set out in various statutes, case law and the Criminal Code all of which are available to you at the Law Library at the Supreme Court in Vancouver. "Cop"-ing a feel will not get a toss for inappropriate behaviour, she'd pretty well have to have sex with you for that to fly. In pre Charter days I remember some of the vice guys would let the girls pretty well strip before they'd identify themselves as cops. Remember, the entrapment laws that apply in the U.S. do not apply in Canada. A lawyer may get you off in exchange for voluntary attendance at John School, but it would have to be negotiated with the Crown Counsel. They would most likely look for a guilty plea with a conditional discharge. Part of that would be that you attend the school and behave yourself for a year at which point your record would be cleaned up.

 

[vancity_cowboy]

The rules they are supposed to play by are set out in various statutes, case law and the Criminal Code all of which are available to you at the Law Library at the Supreme Court in Vancouver. "Cop"-ing a feel will not get a toss for inappropriate behaviour, she'd pretty well have to have sex with you for that to fly. In pre Charter days I remember some of the vice guys would let the girls pretty well strip before they'd identify themselves as cops. Remember, the entrapment laws that apply in the U.S. do not apply in Canada. A lawyer may get you off in exchange for voluntary attendance at John School, but it would have to be negotiated with the Crown Counsel. They would most likely look for a guilty plea with a conditional discharge. Part of that would be that you attend the school and behave yourself for a year at which point your record would be cleaned up.

thanks, i guess there's nothing like developing 'street smarts' to avoid trouble - trouble of all sorts!

 

[uncleg]

thanks, i guess there's nothing like developing 'street smarts' to avoid trouble - trouble of all sorts!

Beats the school of hard knocks.........:nod:

 

[plumbcrawl]

is there ANYTHING you can do to screen a potential cop or 'forced' sw witness?

the short answer is don't see a SW! EVER! It can not be understated your risks on all fronts go up when seeing a SW. Although an incall escort is not without risk, the risks are dwarfed when compared to picking up ladies on the stroll. again, NEVER EVER EVER! all the best =)

 

[suPERB]

I'm not condoning or endorsing this SW activity but for argument's sake, what if you start with:

- walk up to the lady and say "hi, you're beautiful, this is not sexual harassment but if you're interested in talking any more with me I'd like you to first grab my crotch.. if I'm mistaken and you're not interested, I'll gladly leave right away and without any trouble."

^would that at least help with screening? unless policewomen are routinely allowed to grab a stranger's genitalia as part of their sting duties, this might work. and even IF it's permitted by law, maybe the undercover officer would tell you to scram and prefer to fry other fish with less effort and with cleaner arrest notes..?

is copping a free feel an adequate measure to take to prove that she didn't behave appropriately to get a successful arrest?

is there ANYTHING you can do to screen a potential cop or 'forced' sw witness?

what is the likelihoood of a lawyer getting you off in exchange for voluntary attendance at johns school?

 

[steverino]

When I lived in the states, the "grab my crotch" or "pull your dick out" lines were used by SW's as a means to identify LE.

 

[uncleg]

If in the end, once you know what you are facing, you decide on a lawyer, hire your own.....................

 

[treveller]

Police Harassment (meaning we harass the police)

How about this.

Offer her $20 or whatever for 5 minutes of private conversation. The police officer won't get in the car and drive off with you. If they challenge you, you simply wanted to chat about the stupidity and harm done by enforcement of laws that have been declared harmful by a superiour court.

Buy a bug detector from the Spy Shop at Broadway and Burrard. Walk the stroll and check for radio transmissions.

Have a chat with the lady while an FRS radio in your pocket on transmit jams her radio. That should bring the police cars right quick. Great entertainment.

 

[Sucre]

I think Hatrick has discussed the proper proceedure - never discuss sex for money on the street, (either initiating or responding) ask them to take a ride with you. If a police sting, they won't get in vehicle as a matter of safety. You can always chat them up safely as long as not discuss money for sex - as nothing wrong with trying to pick up a cute girl, but it is wrong (at law) to offer to pay or agree to pay for sex or sex related activity while in public place.

 

[knight rider]

Well here's how it turned out guys...I hired a well known lawyer who negotiated an adult differal which means that if I admit to it and then do 24 hours of community service they will drop the charges and not proceed in court. Well I obviously won't do it again but this whole thing has come at an expense just under 2k which for some people might not be an option. Yes it is still a crime but I would just hate for anyone to have a criminal record and not being able to get a decent job because of talking to a SW. Anyways all is well and everybody can learn from my mistake and stay away from SW's because it's just not worth it! Thanks for all the help and info guys!

 

[princeofdarkness]

Well here's how it turned out guys...I hired a well known lawyer who negotiated an adult differal which means that if I admit to it and then do 24 hours of community service they will drop the charges and not proceed in court. Well I obviously won't do it again but this whole thing has come at an expense just under 2k which for some people might not be an option. Yes it is still a crime but I would just hate for anyone to have a criminal record and not being able to get a decent job because of talking to a SW. Anyways all is well and everybody can learn from my mistake and stay away from SW's because it's just not worth it! Thanks for all the help and info guys!

Congrats Knight Rider and thanks for sharing the great news.
I share your sense of relief albeit a lighter wallet but you did the right thing. Moving onward and upward now. Take care.

Peace.

 

[Umbras]

Grats KR good to hear that things worked out for you, I guess we can all thank him for the ultimate TOFT and giving us the details of what to do if someone chooses to ignore thier Jimney Cricket and listen to thier Jimmy instead.

 

[lenny]

if they offered you to go to "john school", take it. it's $500 i believe but means no record at all. this is the safest option for you. there is alot of negative rhetoric flying around about sex consumers especially with mp joy smith pushing a private members bill to criminalize purchasing sex, you may get an opinionated judge trying to make an example of you.

take the safe road at this time men, if you can get out of it by enduring 8 hrs of brain draining information overload on the exploitation of children....john school is ridiculous, but its the safest option for you to be free and clear.

What's the present status of the "john school"? Has it been scrapped or soon to be?