Article: Escort fears creep's extortion bid would ruin her dreams of being doctor

[jesuschrist]

She probably didn't pursue charges. That doesn't mean what he did was legal.

You don't need to pursue charges for charges to be laid. Cops will lay charges independent of that choice by the victim. They must lay charges if there is evidence of a crime. They cannot avoid that even if the victim demands that no charges be laid.

For example, if a wife has a black eye, the cops must press charges on the husband even if she begs them not to. The cops are bound by the law and the wishes of the victim don't play into that. Only Crown can throw out the charges.

 

[jesuschrist]

The cops may not lay charges in criminal cases if there is an unwilling victim because the case will not make it through the courts and result in a guilty verdict without their co-operation.

True, so that bolsters my argument. It is because evidence is only good if it makes it to the courts, and if the victim must be part of the presentation of that evidence, and the victim does not want to participate, the cop might as well not have evidence, so no charges are obligated.
But if she wants to press charges, the cops MUST press charges.

 

[jesuschrist]

Took about 30 seconds on EROS to find her ad, she didn't even change her name - the price list is identical, the reporter was pretty damned lazy. Anyone who wants to know who she is will find her easily. idiot reporters.

But it's not the reporters who are responsible for her EROS listing, she is. She should pull it down when there is an article out there if she cares about her identity.

 

[Unpossible]

True, so that bolsters my argument.

That bolsters Borko's and my argument, actually.

 

[Tugela]

I doubt it. Most escorts don't, simply because it's cash business and many reason that they are paid low enough such that if they had to pay taxes too, it wouldn't be worth it. I would have to concur, if I did that job, I certainly would not want to part with any of my money and not even to the tax man. And though I concur, I would have to admit that it would be wrong doing so - which is why if I were a female, this would be a reason I would never do this job.

And frankly I have a problem with this story - so this client is not one of the usual high-flootin' clients she would rather have, but some regular joe who would have to scrape up the money to afford even a $1500 deposit (I think most middle class income earners would not find that sum insignificant).

Throughout the article, all we hear is that she returns $800 of that deposit, so she stiffs him for $700. Frankly if her identity is that important to her, she made two serious errors:
1) she was lax in her identity and somehow he found out
2) she rips him off $700, and not knowing the nature of any new client, should be guarding against that so maybe it would be really wise to return that money that is owed to him. It seems a small trade off - lose the $700 she is pocketing from having thieved him in return for some security for her identity. Should be a no-brainer.

This story is so skewed in fact, that it would seem like he's some dishonest person but in fact she's the one stealing from him. Not only that, they make him out to be a loser by contrasting him to the clients who can afford her self-admittedly high rates, and that is quite unfair. As for his home life living with his mother - that's his business and nobody should be judging one's own domestic arrangements in a public newspaper.

To me, she's the craven dishonest entitled bitch here. Her client, if he's a bad guy, not half as bad as she is.

An escort who charges $300 an hour, and sees an average of 5 clients a week for one hour each should be grossing $78000 a year. An average of 10 clients a week brings that up to $1560000 a year. Worst case scenario for expenses (assuming $1500/month for in call rent, if she doesnt actually live there, and $1000/month for sundry expenses) is about $30000 (probably much less in most cases). So, probably clearing about $100-125k per year, for about 2-4 hours of direct and associated work per day, depending on how active she is. And in most cases these are women who at best would be earning ~$40k in a civilian job working 8 hours a day.

Now, as you know, the hard part of any income is getting enough to meet your basic needs. Anything extra makes your life exponentially better the more you make.

So they are getting an excellent deal both financially and in terms of how much time they actually have to work. That is what attracts them and why they do it. It facilitates a standard of living they (and most everyone else) could only dream about otherwise.

These women are not starving. They are far from starving. Maybe they don't all spend their money wisely, but that does not make them hard pressed.

They can afford to pay their taxes.

Keep in mind that as they receive payment in cash, they can mitigate tax by spending largely in cash and not declaring it (no paper trail). That means their effective relative income is a lot larger than that $100-125k (by whatever amount they don't declare).

As far as this particular escort is concerned, the issue appears to be the deposit he paid and her refusal to pay it back on the cancellation. That is what it is all about. He was trying to pressure her into giving him his money back since they didnt actually see each other, and she is trying to rationalize keeping it, and when push comes to shove, getting the police called in to help intimidate him into shutting up. Following that, she proceeds to slight him suggesting he isnt what he appeared. Well duh, neither is she for that matter. That is how it works in this sub culture.

I don't see either of them as being good guys here. Firstly, he did send her the deposit in the first place, so he wasn't being a flake setting up a fake appointment. But he couldn't come up with the rest, maybe had second thoughts, or perhaps other stuff came up so he couldn't do the appointment. Obviously he is going to want his money back, who wouldn't, so that was what he was pressing. Secondly, she presumably didn't incurr any expenses, so there was no good reason for her to have kept the deposit.

 

[Tugela]

A criminal act is an act against society and it is not up to the victim to decide if the charges will be laid. Civil action involves the individual and the remedy is in the hands of the victim /Plaintiff.

The cops may not lay charges in criminal cases if there is an unwilling victim because the case will not make it through the courts and result in a guilty verdict without their co-operation.

For them to investigate she would have had to complain and present enough evidence for probable cause. As soon as that happened, the decision about whether to pursue charges or not is out of her hands, the investigation would take on a life of its own. If the investigation didn't go any further than them visiting him, there probably was no real evidence of any illegality.

 

[Tugela]

And in any case, she could have ended the conflict by simply returning the money, as any honorable person would do.

The only time there is legitimate reason to retain a deposit is if you incurred a real or implicit expense as a result, and It doesn't appear she did.

 

[susi]

ummmm, this is why people get away with violence against sex workers. there are so many stereotypes flying around here its hard to know where to begin.

of course she's lying, she's a sex worker....of course the "evidence" was no good, all sex workers are liars....she's a high end greedy bitch, so she gets what she deserves...of course it didn't go to court, she's a lying sex worker and had no "real evidnece"

can you guys hear yourselves?jezzus....

a man unlawfully confined me and assaulted me in west vancouver. he tried to kill me using a bat...i choked him out and was not hurt to badly so don't panic....

i had just become the chairman of pace society and when the police found a gun in the place i felt obligated to move forward to court.

once in court, the police were completely inept, they did not bring the gun or the bat to court. the guy had no lawyer so the man who tried to kill me got to question me in court. the first question was "do you understand what $200 an hour means?" the judge looked down his nose at me and i knew it was over.

the guy walked, even with the tesimony of my driver, 3 police officers and my safety check girl....

not guilty....no evidence....all sex workers are liars, sex workers are money hungry and have no morales...

sometimes its hard to defend you guys, i mean lots of you seem really cool but then something like this happens and i am shocked to say the least by the reactions quoted here....

even the reporter was so biased, posting her ad and rates....that's fucked

threatening to out as sex worker is VIOLENCE. if you got robbed or are harbouring ill feelings about women working in this industry, i suggest you should take a break....

if you would like to report sp's who rob to police confidentilally through me i am also happy to do that. just pm me. the police are slow to act in these cases but i frame it as creating a dangerous environment for other workers and they are listening...

love susi

 

[jesuschrist]

the issue appears to be the deposit he paid and her refusal to pay it back on the cancellation. That is what it is all about. He was trying to pressure her into giving him his money back since they didnt actually see each other, and she is trying to rationalize keeping it, and when push comes to shove, getting the police called in to help intimidate him into shutting up. Following that, she proceeds to slight him suggesting he isnt what he appeared.

And that is precisely the key of what's happened.

To twist the knife further, she gets a public forum - a newspaper, to voice her views portrayed as the victim.

How much sympathy does she really deserve? None from people who have any sense of fairness - until he commits a crime against her - and in my mind, a crime committed against a craven manipulator who knows what she's doing.

 

[jesuschrist]

We pay most of us anyways our taxes and file every year, we pay rent, mortgage and bills, we even buy groceries and eat, go to the bank teacher parent interviews in some cases.

That's like saying, "I take CARE of MY kids". Congratulations!

 

[jesuschrist]

ummmm, this is why people get away with violence against sex workers. there are so many stereotypes flying around here its hard to know where to begin.

of course she's lying, she's a sex worker....of course the "evidence" was no good, all sex workers are liars....she's a high end greedy bitch, so she gets what she deserves...of course it didn't go to court, she's a lying sex worker and had no "real evidnece"

can you guys hear yourselves?jezzus....

a man unlawfully confined me and assaulted me in west vancouver. he tried to kill me using a bat...i choked him out and was not hurt to badly so don't panic....

i had just become the chairman of pace society and when the police found a gun in the place i felt obligated to move forward to court.

once in court, the police were completely inept, they did not bring the gun or the bat to court. the guy had no lawyer so the man who tried to kill me got to question me in court. the first question was "do you understand what $200 an hour means?" the judge looked down his nose at me and i knew it was over.

the guy walked, even with the tesimony of my driver, 3 police officers and my safety check girl....

not guilty....no evidence....all sex workers are liars, sex workers are money hungry and have no morales...

sometimes its hard to defend you guys, i mean lots of you seem really cool but then something like this happens and i am shocked to say the least by the reactions quoted here....

even the reporter was so biased, posting her ad and rates....that's fucked

threatening to out as sex worker is VIOLENCE. if you got robbed or are harbouring ill feelings about women working in this industry, i suggest you should take a break....

if you would like to report sp's who rob to police confidentilally through me i am also happy to do that. just pm me. the police are slow to act in these cases but i frame it as creating a dangerous environment for other workers and they are listening...

love susi

You're right, outing a sex worker is a very terrible nasty thing to do, it is violence.

What happened to you, from who offended against you to the court system injustice against you, was wrong. But wrong as it was, it is clearly completely different from the story as presented. Comparing your woes to her's is totally incorrect.

She was actually the aggressor here, once the business relationship went sour. Knowing what the risks of sex work is (being outed), she still asserts her demands for that extra piddly $700 (given her financial success) over someone who threatens her with violence. According to the story, he hasn't done it. But instead, she "outs" him in a public newspaper and attacks him as a person for being pathetic for living with his mother. If she was interested in not being outed, she's undone it by attacking him publicly - now he's going to be even more vengeful. She is clearly the aggressor.

The reporter says her rates, why is that victimizing her? Her rates are already public. The article presents her as a victim, not the aggressor. The article implies that not enough evidence was there to charge him - and that is probably true because police officers must charge if there is evidence of a crime. The article does not victimize her whatsoever, instead it is her public platform to tell the world just how unjustly she's been treated. The article is completely sympathetic to her, and it gives him absolutely no voice whatsoever.

 

[jesuschrist]

So... You're admitting that it's a crime now? Also, are all escorts craven manipulators or just this one?

You seem to lack comprehension. If the police did not charge him, there is no crime. I can't admit something that is not there. No, all escorts are not craven manipulators - how did you jump to that conclusion when I was only speaking about the ONE escort?

And to all the people that are saying she should have just rolled over, would you day the same thing if the guy said she should provide services to him for free or else he would expose her identity?

You're completely unreasonable.

 

[susi]

lol, i am not an angry feminist man hater, but thanks though!! posting her rates in the article positions her in a cast of the money hungry manipulator....which people here seem to buy into....

its just money, she should have given into his demands....well, i don't agree. he knew it was a non refundable deposite and resorted to threats when he tried to renig on his commitment....

my beef here is that everyone is so quick to assume her motives for what she did....in terms of comparing my experieces with hers, they are the same, its both cases of violence....being outed as a sex worker carries grave consequences...

if you feel you need to ignore me so be it but i am not a man hater,i am sorry you feel i am ranting and that somehow i must be pms'ing or having a bad day....not true, having a good day actually, its really nice out! i just feel its important to challnege some of the stereo types being perpetuated here in defense of a guy/situation we really have no understanding of.

i am not trying to put words in anyone's mouth, i am simply stating the feelings i get from the things people are posting here.

how do you know the facts in this case are the way you interpret them? that there was no evidence....? i can tell you that toronto police are the worst for dismissing violence against sex workers...well, winnipeg are the worst but that's another story.

this kind if thing happenes alot, pooners using an sp's personal info to force them into submission on some level, like refunding a non refundable deposite, or bare back full service for example.

my references to all sp's being liars etc, is not me quoting people but rather me trying to point out the ways in which mainstream systems do not treat sex workers fairly. we assume there was no evidence because the was no charges but we are not acknowledging that sex workers are rarely believed by police and their testimony persumed uncredible because they are sex workers, case in point, the younge woman who escaped pickton's farm after being stabbed and cutting his throat and prosecutors not pressing charges...is it becuase there was no evidence? we know now that there was plenty of evidence including him having the key to the handcuffs still on her arm in his pocket...so why?

that's all, i just don't think its fair to assume that because charges weren't laid, that there was no crime.

make sense?
love susie

 

[jesuschrist]

So rent in TO is significantly cheaper than VAN?
Also, WHO can spend only 300-400 on groceries, transit and internet a month? Hell if I had to pay for transit here and included my internet it would cost me 100-200 a month, so that leaves her 200-300 for groceries a month? What does this girl eat?

Sounds pretty inaccurate eh? Makes the reporting suspect.

But let's go with it, she only spends 400 per month on groceries, internet and transit. If that were true, then somebody else is subsidizing her. A sugar daddy perhaps? Plausible?

Same goes for rent at a mere $1350. Somehow I doubt she would be living in a hobble with her income, and I'm guessing again a subsidy from a "benefactor" (how ironic that he's called the benefactor).

 

[Pillowtalk]

So rent in TO is significantly cheaper than VAN?
Also, WHO can spend only 300-400 on groceries, transit and internet a month? Hell if I had to pay for transit here and included my internet it would cost me 100-200 a month, so that leaves her 200-300 for groceries a month? What does this girl eat?

It makes me wonder if these figures were plucked out of the air by the reporter, actually. I think you could get groceries, etc for 300/month, but the rest, she must get a really good deal on transit (and good for her for not squandering her money by having a car or using taxis every time she wants to go to the corner store lol). And internet, my whole package costs at least 150 for phone, cable and internet. I want want she is using lol.


I don't know why JC derailed this thread into making it into an issue of a greedy sp who scammed a (potential) client. He knew the deposit was non refundable. An sp who charges 400/hr has non refundable deposits, the key word being NONrefundable. Not full refund if the appt is canceled by the client. Not full refund if the client cancels the appointment, and then tries to out the sp's personal information if he doesn't get a full refund. He knew going in the conditions of making the appt, he seemed pretty sure he was going thru with it by coming up with the $1500.

He went to some trouble to find out her personal details, remember. He could easily have tried to blackmail her with a review saying she scammed 1500 out of him and won't return it, but he chose to use her private info instead.

I think the point of the story was to tell guys that they aren't always going to get away with blackmail, threats and intimidation to get what they want from sps. Trying to make it about the sp having an exorbitant rate or a nonrefundable deposit booking policy and therefore she deserves to be threatened or blackmailed by would be clients is laying it on a bit thick.

But JC and a couple of others have taken their stand, and nothing is going to convince them otherwise. So ladies, take care, do not book with a guy who not only so vehemently objects to your booking conditions, but also doesn't want you to use the bathroom in his presence.



I agree with susi, just because charges weren't laid (that we know of, the article doesn't say we don't know), doesn't mean it isn't a crime.

The fact is, LE doesn't visit guys who harrass sps unless they have enough evidence to show that there is ongoing harrassment. The result sps want is for the guy to stop. A visit from LE often gets the guy to stop. I've seen a few reports by sps who have contacted LE due to client harrassment, and outside of assault cases, the outcome is usually similar. And the outcome the sp most wants it to get the guy to stop, she doesn't really care if the guy faces a judge or has to go to the police station, as far as I can see. I don't think she even cares if she doesn't know his real name and address, as long as LE visits, services a restraining order if that is what it takes, and shows him that he is breaking the law and that it won't be tolerated.

LE doesn't knock on doors for no reason, if there wasn't enough evidence, or there was a real lack of evidence, they wouldn't have done that.

 

[susi]

ok, sorry for the pms'ing thing, it was not me trying to put words in your mouth, its just me being silly, trying to lighten thingd up, its a discussion with broad inputs....

i don't blame men here for the stereo types nor do i dimiss the pooners who have expeirenced violence by being outed in a malicious way. yes, it is violence against men.

the fact that they deemed the pickton witness unreliable IS bias. how do they know? is every crack head unreliable? was she a crack head? street workers are not always drug addicts....the idea of them "protecting" her from being torn apart on the stand is laughable in this case. they simply didn't want to bother, didn't want to waste resources....or so they testified to the commission anyway....

that's the point, we are all cast like to woman in the picton case, as unreliable witnesses...whether that be a result of being a drug addict or o high end greedy worker....both are equally destructive in terms of bringing balance to people's perceptions of sex workers.

since the story was about violence against sex workers, not against pooners, i didn't mention it goes both ways but it does you are right....i did not however judge you because you have a penis...nor are all pooners men....there are many stereo types that even we as a community in the sex industry perpetuate.

i understnad that physical violence may seem different than perceived violence (being threatened with being outed) but it isn't and the symptoms/aftermath are the same.

maybe going in the news was the only thing she felt she could do after police refused to press charges as a result of her being an unreliable type of witness....

this is all specualtion, as was the point of my post. we don't know how she felt or why she chose the path she did. the fact remains that evidence or not, a crime was committed, it was violence.

perhaps our definition of violence is different but that does not change the base line facts that we have to consider here.

sorry you felt i was attacking your penis!!(just me being silly again-don't be mad!)

love susie

 

[jesuschrist]

It makes me wonder if these figures were plucked out of the air by the reporter, actually. I think you could get groceries, etc for 300/month, but the rest, she must get a really good deal on transit (and good for her for not squandering her money by having a car or using taxis every time she wants to go to the corner store lol). And internet, my whole package costs at least 150 for phone, cable and internet. I want want she is using lol.


I don't know why JC derailed this thread into making it into an issue of a greedy sp who scammed a (potential) client. He knew the deposit was non refundable. An sp who charges 400/hr has non refundable deposits, the key word being NONrefundable. Not full refund if the appt is canceled by the client. Not full refund if the client cancels the appointment, and then tries to out the sp's personal information if he doesn't get a full refund. He knew going in the conditions of making the appt, he seemed pretty sure he was going thru with it by coming up with the $1500.

He went to some trouble to find out her personal details, remember. He could easily have tried to blackmail her with a review saying she scammed 1500 out of him and won't return it, but he chose to use her private info instead.

I think the point of the story was to tell guys that they aren't always going to get away with blackmail, threats and intimidation to get what they want from sps. Trying to make it about the sp having an exorbitant rate or a nonrefundable deposit booking policy and therefore she deserves to be threatened or blackmailed by would be clients is laying it on a bit thick.

But JC and a couple of others have taken their stand, and nothing is going to convince them otherwise. So ladies, take care, do not book with a guy who not only so vehemently objects to your booking conditions, but also doesn't want you to use the bathroom in his presence.



I agree with susi, just because charges weren't laid (that we know of, the article doesn't say we don't know), doesn't mean it isn't a crime.

The fact is, LE doesn't visit guys who harrass sps unless they have enough evidence to show that there is ongoing harrassment. The result sps want is for the guy to stop. A visit from LE often gets the guy to stop. I've seen a few reports by sps who have contacted LE due to client harrassment, and outside of assault cases, the outcome is usually similar. And the outcome the sp most wants it to get the guy to stop, she doesn't really care if the guy faces a judge or has to go to the police station, as far as I can see. I don't think she even cares if she doesn't know his real name and address, as long as LE visits, services a restraining order if that is what it takes, and shows him that he is breaking the law and that it won't be tolerated.

LE doesn't knock on doors for no reason, if there wasn't enough evidence, or there was a real lack of evidence, they wouldn't have done that.

This is a total a-priori argument from top to bottom. Therefore only those who agree with you would ever be convinced because it assumes the answer in the supposition.

 

[badbadboy]

In my field of expertise, I was requested to travel out of province to train a new client's personnel on every aspect of the product they were purchasing and installing. Since they were a small company and the risk to me of not getting my full rate paid in a timely manner was risky, I asked for 25% up front, 25% when my training manuals were printed and ready to ship to them and 25% when they had the hotel rooms booked and a conference room was booked. Final payment was due immediately after the course which was three days in length.

Preparing for this course took me two weeks to prepare and it had 95% of my attention for the entire time.

Imagine for a moment that they reneged on their end of the deal? Basically it would have hit my bottom line big time for that month. When I make a contract with a company and go forward with implementing a custom training session for $X I expect to receive every penny. Due diligence means you need to get deposits during milestones "just in case" someone decides that they can get a better deal for less money.

I do not see a traveling SP's time as something that people should think of as a trivial thing. If a pooner books a high end SP to arrive at his house in Calgary and fulfill her end of the deal for the agreed upon $7K. IF the pooner decides he does not want to go through with it, tough shit, he loses his deposit. It takes time to organize travel, book a hotel, book a rental car PLUS if the pooner reneges on the deal you need to figure out how to recoup the income you thought you were going to make while on tour to Calgary.

JC, you have shown yourself to be a misogynistic who does not value the SP's time, what services they perform and you also minimize their ability to earn a living and even infer they are dodging paying taxes. Where do you get these ideas? Is this actual pillow talk where they say "shhhh, I am screwing the Government by not paying any taxes" BS!

I have met some ladies who keep very detailed files of their expenses of rental In Call, laundry, personal grooming, lube, condoms the whole ball of wax. They also state on their returns they are either "escorts" or "personal entertainer" or some other creative description.

 

[Tugela]

So rent in TO is significantly cheaper than VAN?
Also, WHO can spend only 300-400 on groceries, transit and internet a month? Hell if I had to pay for transit here and included my internet it would cost me 100-200 a month, so that leaves her 200-300 for groceries a month? What does this girl eat?

Groceries, transit and the like are not business expenses. That gets paid from your net income, just like everyone else. Your living expenses are not business expenses.

Rent generally doesnt cost that much in Van, for a one bedroom place it is probably more like 1K in the trendy areas. I said 1.5k just in case someone had an upscale incall (or had to pay extra for the landlord to turn a blind eye).

The only things that qualifies as a business expense in this scenario would be the cost of the incall (but ONLY if you actually have one separate from where you live), any security you have to pay for, transportation to the client if not at an incall, a phone and or computer (but ONLY if those items are used for business and not personal use), and any maintenance/service you might have to pay for (agaian, ONLY if it is directly related to the business and is not a personal expense).

You can get some idea of what the magnitude of those expenses are like from the difference in rates between a one hour session and a multi hour session. In most cases the second hour is about $50 cheaper, so that is the approximate cost of business to the escort, possibly slightly more, but not by much. The remainder of the fee is purely for her time, and represents the net income. This is the equivalent of the pre-tax salary of a regular joe if the escort pays taxes, or the after-tax salary of a regular joe if she does not.

 

[Tugela]

In my field of expertise, I was requested to travel out of province to train a new client's personnel on every aspect of the product they were purchasing and installing. Since they were a small company and the risk to me of not getting my full rate paid in a timely manner was risky, I asked for 25% up front, 25% when my training manuals were printed and ready to ship to them and 25% when they had the hotel rooms booked and a conference room was booked. Final payment was due immediately after the course which was three days in length.

Preparing for this course took me two weeks to prepare and it had 95% of my attention for the entire time.

Imagine for a moment that they reneged on their end of the deal? Basically it would have hit my bottom line big time for that month. When I make a contract with a company and go forward with implementing a custom training session for $X I expect to receive every penny. Due diligence means you need to get deposits during milestones "just in case" someone decides that they can get a better deal for less money.

I do not see a traveling SP's time as something that people should think of as a trivial thing. If a pooner books a high end SP to arrive at his house in Calgary and fulfill her end of the deal for the agreed upon $7K. IF the pooner decides he does not want to go through with it, tough shit, he loses his deposit. It takes time to organize travel, book a hotel, book a rental car PLUS if the pooner reneges on the deal you need to figure out how to recoup the income you thought you were going to make while on tour to Calgary.

JC, you have shown yourself to be a misogynistic who does not value the SP's time, what services they perform and you also minimize their ability to earn a living and even infer they are dodging paying taxes. Where do you get these ideas? Is this actual pillow talk where they say "shhhh, I am screwing the Government by not paying any taxes" BS!

I have met some ladies who keep very detailed files of their expenses of rental In Call, laundry, personal grooming, lube, condoms the whole ball of wax. They also state on their returns they are either "escorts" or "personal entertainer" or some other creative description.

She didn't actually go out to meet him though, from the article it appears that her only time invested was answering a few e-mails. So, under those circumstances the right thing to have done was return the money. But she chose instead to be greedy and everything escalated from there. If she had just done the honorable thing in the first place everything probably would have been cool, so playing the victim card now is not right.

It would be different if she had booked a non refundable flight, or had actually gone out there and then had it fall flat, but that does not appear to have happened.