A canary in the coal mines of democracy

Webster

Member
Oct 4, 2004
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luckydog71 said:
Smackyo, the social programs I do not want to see brought to the US are those were the person receiving medical care has their medical bills paid for by someone else.
This is the very basis of insurance. Not sure what you think the alternative to that is.

The problem with the US system is the massive amount of payment into administration and profit-taking: money'd obviously be better with a single non-profit insurer on a Medicare-like basis. The US already has socialized medicine, but only for old people.
 

luckydog71

Active member
Oct 26, 2003
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Herb, you seem to know a lot about what moron means when he writes stuff that no one else gets.

You are also spending a lot of time clarifying and defending his ridiculous positions.

Has anyone on PERB actually seen Herb and Moron together????
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 

luckydog71

Active member
Oct 26, 2003
1,117
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36
75
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Webster, the US medical system is broken as well. It needs an overhaul.

I am all in favor of medical insurance. My premiums are approximately 600 a month. I am also in favor of government subsidized premiums for those who can not afford it.

The problem I see with the Canadian system is everyone is treated exactly the same. If you can afford private medical....too bad. If you want to pay to get priority treatment....too bad....if a doctor maxs out on their annual income.....too bad. We have private hospitals that provide premium care for additional fees. We also have public hospitals for those who can not afford private care.

It would be an interesting study to see what level of care and the length of the lines for treatment between a Canadian hospital and a public American hospital. I do not know the answer, but I would like too.

I also know no one has ever been turned away from a public hospital because they can not pay. Even illegal Mexicans who sneak across the border are treated by our public hospitals. They do try to collect, but good luck trying to garnishee a Mexican bank account.
 

manx1

New member
Dec 19, 2004
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I have always wondered how a Regan Lover would explain

Ronald Reagan who, God bless, was perhaps our greatest president who single handedly brought down Communism.


..............


But anyways, Canadians are very nice and except for not joining us in the Coalition of the Willing, pretty much roll over and play dead any time we ask them.[/QUOTE]

Regan who was one of the few able bodied Americans who managed to miss the second world war, cut taxes and then had to raise them again, because his notion of economics proved unsuited to reality.

Second point, was that coilition of the willing or coalition of the dumb. Almost 300 Billion $us and the lights are still not back on to Sadam's level. The talk isabout America because as it spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined. Thus, in feckless hands it can cause more death and destruction than anyone else.................That is not, as you may imagine, goody two shoes stuff.
 

eljudo

Banned
Oct 15, 2002
559
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52
Vancouver, BC
Bring It On!

qUESTIONS TO THE READERS.


1. Is american any safer now, with saddam gone?
2. Was saddam ever a threat to national security?
3. where the fuck are the weapons of mass destructions.


Iraq Numbers Add
Up To A Real Scare
By Ike Awgu
Commentary for The Ottawa Sun
6-26-5

Politeness aside, it's pretty clear to nearly every Canadian who isn't a flake that the war in Iraq was a big mistake and our absence from it a blessing.

I've never been particularly terrified of numbers, but here are some that should startle you: 22,353 -- the minimum total number of dead Iraqi civilians since the war began in 2003; 12,896 -- the number of American and allied troops injured in Iraq since 2003. And 1,724 -- the number of American teenagers and young adults (many of whom were poor and joined the military to pay for college) who will be returning home in caskets.

The most telling number in the Iraq saga however is one I haven't mentioned. It's the number zero -- that's the number of weapons of mass destruction that have been found, or will ever be, within Iraq's borders.

To most Canadians this is all old news. What isn't old new news however, and I've cleverly titled "new news" are the secret transcripts collectively named the Downing Street memos that were leaked last month to the press on the Internet.

The memos shed light onto the processes occurring behind the scenes at the highest levels of government that convinced two of the world's wealthiest nations into invading one of its poorest.

The first initial paper to be called the Downing Street memo was published in the Sunday Times of London last month. The memo summarized a July 23, 2002, meeting of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his top advisers.

A British official, an entire year before the war in Iraq, when commenting on discussions with the Bush administration stated that, "There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable."

The memo contradicts what President Bush was saying right up to the onset of the war, that military action was a last resort. Bush claimed that it was Saddam (who's apparently been giving relationship advice to his guards in an Iraq jail) who forced the hand of his administration and caused the war.

The leaked memo also reveals the cavalier manner in which the Bush administration treated safeguarding a post-war Iraq. A British intelligence officer states, "In particular, little thought has been given to creating the political conditions for military action, or the aftermath and how to shape it."

The results of this lack of planning are put on display for us each day on CNN and other news programs; near incessant car bombings, kidnappings, religiously motivated murders and foreign fighters with AK-47s as common as rice at a Greek wedding.

In summary, the memos make clear what most already know: That the Bush Administration was disproportionately and disturbingly inclined toward war.

In addition however, they show that the British government mistakenly believed it could exert more influence on the president than in the end it could.

The British repeatedly warned the Americans, a year before the invasion in 2002, that steps had to be taken to prepare for post-war Iraq. American troops and Iraqi civilians are now paying with their lives for the U.S. government's mistake. The memos also state that the Bush Administration, a year before the war in Iraq, was dismissive of the need for UN Security Council approval for an Iraq war.

The implication given is that final push for a UN stamp of approval, the display in which Colin Powell embarrassed himself, was likely the result of pressure from London.

Over 20,000 of the planet's poorest people have paid with their lives for the incompetence of the planet's richest 300 million. Numbers generally don't scare me, but to most of you, that should be disturbing.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Ottawa/Ike_
Awgu/2005/06/22/1098577.html
 

David in Van

New member
Oct 16, 2004
204
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Couple of questions

eljudo said:
qUESTIONS TO THE READERS.


1. Is american any safer now, with saddam gone?
2. Was saddam ever a threat to national security?
3. where the fuck are the weapons of mass destructions.


Iraq Numbers Add
Up To A Real Scare
By Ike Awgu
Commentary for The Ottawa Sun
6-26-5

Politeness aside, it's pretty clear to nearly every Canadian who isn't a flake that the war in Iraq was a big mistake and our absence from it a blessing.

I've never been particularly terrified of numbers, but here are some that should startle you: 22,353 -- the minimum total number of dead Iraqi civilians since the war began in 2003; 12,896 -- the number of American and allied troops injured in Iraq since 2003. And 1,724 -- the number of American teenagers and young adults (many of whom were poor and joined the military to pay for college) who will be returning home in caskets.

The most telling number in the Iraq saga however is one I haven't mentioned. It's the number zero -- that's the number of weapons of mass destruction that have been found, or will ever be, within Iraq's borders.

To most Canadians this is all old news. What isn't old new news however, and I've cleverly titled "new news" are the secret transcripts collectively named the Downing Street memos that were leaked last month to the press on the Internet.

The memos shed light onto the processes occurring behind the scenes at the highest levels of government that convinced two of the world's wealthiest nations into invading one of its poorest.

The first initial paper to be called the Downing Street memo was published in the Sunday Times of London last month. The memo summarized a July 23, 2002, meeting of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his top advisers.

A British official, an entire year before the war in Iraq, when commenting on discussions with the Bush administration stated that, "There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable."

The memo contradicts what President Bush was saying right up to the onset of the war, that military action was a last resort. Bush claimed that it was Saddam (who's apparently been giving relationship advice to his guards in an Iraq jail) who forced the hand of his administration and caused the war.

The leaked memo also reveals the cavalier manner in which the Bush administration treated safeguarding a post-war Iraq. A British intelligence officer states, "In particular, little thought has been given to creating the political conditions for military action, or the aftermath and how to shape it."

The results of this lack of planning are put on display for us each day on CNN and other news programs; near incessant car bombings, kidnappings, religiously motivated murders and foreign fighters with AK-47s as common as rice at a Greek wedding.

In summary, the memos make clear what most already know: That the Bush Administration was disproportionately and disturbingly inclined toward war.

In addition however, they show that the British government mistakenly believed it could exert more influence on the president than in the end it could.

The British repeatedly warned the Americans, a year before the invasion in 2002, that steps had to be taken to prepare for post-war Iraq. American troops and Iraqi civilians are now paying with their lives for the U.S. government's mistake. The memos also state that the Bush Administration, a year before the war in Iraq, was dismissive of the need for UN Security Council approval for an Iraq war.

The implication given is that final push for a UN stamp of approval, the display in which Colin Powell embarrassed himself, was likely the result of pressure from London.

Over 20,000 of the planet's poorest people have paid with their lives for the incompetence of the planet's richest 300 million. Numbers generally don't scare me, but to most of you, that should be disturbing.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Ottawa/Ike_
Awgu/2005/06/22/1098577.html
While I certainly agree that the war was not sold in a forthright manner, I have to ask two questions:
1.
How many people are dead because of Saddam? About a million Iraqis and Iranians from the Iraq Iran was is a good place to start, not to mention his own countryman.
2.
Was it wrong to get rid of Hitler? Saddam was just as bad, think of the missing Kuwaitis from that invasion and the Kurds that he gassed.

Bottom line, I can not imagine criticizing the removal of somebody like Saddam on ethical or moral grounds. I only have one thing to say to somebody that thinks Saddam was better than Bush. It is, "#$#%# you #$#%# your morals!" If you think that a tyranical dictatorship is more morally correct than a liberal democracy, then go live in one and stop benefiting from freedom you Decadent Hypocritical Pig! Better yet, strap a bomb to your chest and go kill some innocent Americans, perhaps an elementary school in Seattle would sate your moral rightousness.

However, most people are not the fanatics described above. Reasonable people can disagree on Iraq. For example, critiquing the war on Iraq is morally defensible on the grounds that it has not made the world safer, or that it was mis-sold, or that it simply was not in American interests to free the slaves from a tyranical dictator.

I happen to think the war was the correct move, but I can respect with people that disagree on these terms. What I can not stomach is somebody who will advocate the sacrifice innocent civilians (Muslims in Kosovo and Bosnia, Iraqis and Kurds in Iraq) to push their political objective.

The insurgency in Iraq is made of two elements:
1.
Sunnis who are upset that they can no longer rape, pillage and plunder Shias and Kurds.
2.
Bin Laden and his comrades - and is it not better that that war is being fought in Iraq than the streets of Manhattan?

Eljudo, your comment are not fanatical, however, I also don't believer that they are balanced. For example, I acknowledge many concerns I have, such as poor planning, Guantanamo, the Patriot Act, etc. However, your comment "Over 20,000 of the planet's poorest people have paid with their lives for the incompetence of the planet's richest 300 million. Numbers generally don't scare me, but to most of you, that should be disturbing." seems to materially ignore the other side of the equation, which is how many people will be alive in the future because Saddam is gone - a number that is fairly easy to estimate based on Saddam's history.
 

Herb_The_Perb

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2005
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Far South of the Border
luckydog71 said:
Herb, you seem to know a lot about what moron means when he writes stuff that no one else gets.
Most people get it, and don't feel the need to post about how they get it.
The really thick headed ones don't, and publicly embarrass themselves by posting about how they don't get it.
They don't even get it that they are embarrassing themselves.
 

luckydog71

Active member
Oct 26, 2003
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Herb_The_Perb said:
Most people get it, and don't feel the need to post about how they get it.
The really thick headed ones don't, and publicly embarrass themselves by posting about how they don't get it.
They don't even get it that they are embarrassing themselves.
Sorry, Herb.....I do not understand what you are trying to say....

BTW - I did get it once and I posted how I got and when. I included how much and with who. I think it was called a review......get it????
 

BushPilot

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Apr 23, 2004
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David in Van, I think you're mistaken. Those words that you're attributing to eljudo are actually the words of the writer in the Ottawa Sun. eljudo merely posted his three questions, followed by the editorial from the Sun.
 

dittman

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Jan 22, 2003
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seattle
good post david in van the only thing i can add to that even though i morn the loss of life of our troops they are doing the job they voluntered for and even though it is not relevant to canada and canadiens how many times has the u.s been hit since we went into afghanistan and iraq? and if there is anybody out there that doesnt beleave that sadam wouldnt have done something silly and stupid if left to his own devices has been smoking to much whacky tabaccy. we just took care of business before he could strike.

LD i think thats a good call on your part herb and moron being one in the same.
 

mick_eight

Banned
Feb 21, 2005
1,197
0
0
Hi Dittman....Canada in afgan ,4 canadians bombed by american plane....oops...sniper record since vietman,broken by canadian who took out taliban leader at 10,000 metres...yah you're all alone ....get educated then come back and sling some more yank bs,
 

David in Van

New member
Oct 16, 2004
204
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Mistaken?

BushPilot said:
David in Van, I think you're mistaken. Those words that you're attributing to eljudo are actually the words of the writer in the Ottawa Sun. eljudo merely posted his three questions, followed by the editorial from the Sun.
He endorsed them, or if he didn't endorse them, he should have made it clear that he wasn't.

However, let me concede that eljudo is not endorsing them. It doesn't matter since my comments are directed at the opinions in the article. I really don't think it matters who wrote them.

Eljudo, my apologies if I attribed opinions to you that were not your own.
 

David in Van

New member
Oct 16, 2004
204
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Educated?

mick_eight said:
Hi Dittman....Canada in afgan ,4 canadians bombed by american plane....oops...sniper record since vietman,broken by canadian who took out taliban leader at 10,000 metres...yah you're all alone ....get educated then come back and sling some more yank bs,
While I would always encourage Dittman to get his facts straight, the sad truth is that given Canada's committment to the war on terror, Dittman is absolutely correct about Canada's committment to the nearest meaningful decimal place.

Regardless of Canada's motives, our committment to the war on terror in nearly inconsequential given our size, resources etc. We are a tenth the size of the US but have committed less than 1% of the resources that they have.

Regardless of whether we are right or wrong about why we are not on board with the US, can Canada really expect to be taken seriously south of the border.

They United States has done more to defend Canada in the last 50 years than Canada has done to defend Canada. How do we repay them?

Perhaps this is why the US has appointed a new Ambassador to Canada thay by his own admission, know nothing about the country and has only been here once.

Our ambassador to the US, Frank McKenna, seems to have a firm grip on reality. As he earlier quoted, the War on Terror trumps all other issues. We need to come to grips with that.
 

Makhno

Recidivist
Nov 11, 2003
696
0
0
Beyond the Pale
Meanwhile, back at the thread topic....

 

eljudo

Banned
Oct 15, 2002
559
0
0
52
Vancouver, BC
David in Van said:
He endorsed them, or if he didn't endorse them, he should have made it clear that he wasn't.

However, let me concede that eljudo is not endorsing them. It doesn't matter since my comments are directed at the opinions in the article. I really don't think it matters who wrote them.

Eljudo, my apologies if I attribed opinions to you that were not your own.

damn! and i was feeling pretty !!! damn you all!!!!!
 

georgebushmoron

jus call me MR. President
Mar 25, 2003
3,126
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56
Seattle
eljudo said:
Jawohl mein Kommandant! Gegen diese Terroristens und Islamofascisten Bomben mit Bomben treffen! Unser Vaterland hat einmal und die letzen Zeit griefen an! Niemals unter meinem Beobachtung! Erwacht Volkes des Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika! Erwacht und horen zu dein Fuhrer an! Machen wir der Weltfrieden fur alle Bruder, alle Meschen unter der Geschutz Amerikanner!
 

LonelyGhost

Telefunkin
Apr 26, 2004
3,933
1
0
georgebushmoron said:
Jawohl mein Kommandant! Gegen diese Terroristens und Islamofascisten Bomben mit Bomben treffen! Unser Vaterland hat einmal und die letzen Zeit griefen an! Niemals unter meinem Beobachtung! Erwacht Volkes des Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika! Erwacht und horen zu dein Fuhrer an! Machen wir der Weltfrieden fur alle Bruder, alle Meschen unter der Geschutz Amerikanner!
jeez, you can't spell in German too ...

the first multilingual moron ... nice!
 

dittman

New member
Jan 22, 2003
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moron that is the reason no one in the u.s except the looney left takes you serious. I do apologize to the canadien troops who are helping in afghanistan and to you mick and david for my gross over sight.
 
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georgebushmoron

jus call me MR. President
Mar 25, 2003
3,126
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Seattle
luckydog71 said:
The problem I see with the Canadian system is everyone is treated exactly the same.
I can't agree more! The Canadian system is too Communist. Obviously some deserve better health care than others! Look here.... just send the newbie docs to the public hospitals, and send the experts to the private health clinics. The experts would get better paid there and deserve it. And the patients who can afford it, obviously deserve it cuz they are productive members of society. As for the non-productive ones, let them get the lesser quality health care (or none at all) cuz they just don't deserve to propagate their own kind anyway. Again the lesson we learn here is the Market works for all, even health care. The system is self-correcting and ensures that only the fittest survives. If it worked for Darwin, it shall work for America. Besides, Canada's system is an obvious failure which is why they are going towards the American model.



luckydog71 said:
Even illegal Mexicans who sneak across the border are treated by our public hospitals. They do try to collect, but good luck trying to garnishee a Mexican bank account.
This has got to stop. Anyone illegally in the US should not be getting anything, even basic rights type stuff like health care that only bonafide citizens not head cases from impoverished nations deserve. Who do we think we are?? Canada? A nation of social welfare cases, refugee claimants, cowardly draft dodgers, weed smokers, ostracised gays, and 20 times lucky felons??
 

georgebushmoron

jus call me MR. President
Mar 25, 2003
3,126
2
0
56
Seattle
LonelyGhost said:
jeez, you can't spell in German too ...
Please offer corrections. I am only learning.
 
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