90% of the opium in the world comes from afghanistan and u.s. Now controls it

[Shakerod]

U.S. troops are helping Afghans to grow opium because if they don't they might turn against them.

Good thing that investigative shill Geraldo is on the story to convince the American public that although they are now the biggest supplier of heroin to the world, some day there may be another crop we can grow there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t372emhXa60&feature=related

 

[Horse99]

it would be cheaper if the US bought the heroin, used it in hospitals., and remove the soldiers from that backwater hole..

 

[timhorton]

Afghanistan is also the biggest supplier of poppies for medical morphine and codine - something always in short supply. One of the reasons that the US is "helping" with controlled opium poppy agriculture there is because the world still needs it and it is an economic stabilizer for Afghanistan. It's wrong to say the US "controls" it, as if they are now trafficking smack.

The US has also been also razing poppy crops that were expressly for illegal drugs. It's a matter of diplomacy because they can't just pull the economic rug out from under entire regions.

Mencken had it right when he said, "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." Afghanistan is a complex problem.

 

[Shakerod]

Afghanistan is also the biggest supplier of poppies for medical morphine and codine - something always in short supply. One of the reasons that the US is "helping" with controlled opium poppy agriculture there is because the world still needs it and it is an economic stabilizer for Afghanistan. It's wrong to say the US "controls" it, as if they are now trafficking smack.

The US has also been also razing poppy crops that were expressly for illegal drugs. It's a matter of diplomacy because they can't just pull the economic rug out from under entire regions.

Mencken had it right when he said, "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." Afghanistan is a complex problem.

Of course it is a complexed problem, but you don't put out a fire by adding gasoline to it. Maybe you have forgotten that the Taliban had banned the growing of poppy seeds before the U.S. invaded, now it is the number one supplier in the world. You sure have a lot of faith in U.S. foreign policy. Take a look at a documentary called' Plan Columbia'. It talks about how the U.S. supported Paramiltary sprayed all the good food crops that farmers were growing there so they could force them into growing coca, which grows quickly and yields big financial returns so it could then end up on the streets of the big cities in the U.S. and get the black population addicted to crack cocaine. I am sorry for being so cynical, but they have a long record of fucking up other countries, and adding to the misery of there own.

 

[timhorton]

You are missing my point. I think the Afghan farmers should be growing opium poppies (in a controlled manner). I don't think it's throwing gas on the flame, or at least not on one that wasn't already fully ablaze. It's a needed commodity and for now a fundamental and irreplaceable crop of Afghanistan's agrarian economy. The US and other NATO proponents are trying to control or guide the legitimacy of it, not profiteer. It's not so much faith in foreign policy as it is realizing that it's not a simple answer of eradicating or cultivating.

Did you know that the Taliban only banned opium poppy cultivation in 2001, and prior to that Afghanistan was still the top producer of opium poppies? It's not like Afghan farmers went from twiddling their thumbs to dealing smack as soon as the US arrived. The Taliban ban on opium poppies devastated the Afghan agrarian community, who already lived in one of the poorest and most drought-ridden countries in the world. Before the ban, the Taliban sanctioned opium cultivation as permissible because its derivatives were ostensibly consumed by non-muslims. But there is also strong suspicion that the Taliban opium ban was a ploy to drive up the value of the opium they had stockpiled. After the US invasion, the Taliban ramped opium production back up to support the insurgency effort. The UN estimate is that the Taliban made $300M on opium in 2006.

So since there is already evidence of what an outright ban on poppy cultivation does to the Afghan farmers, it's understandable why the US and NATO are cautiously negotiating the opium poppy industry in Afghanistan.

For what it's worth, I have a friend running an NGO in Kabul which argued against the US's initial inclination to just eradicate poppy crops. I get a bit of an inside scoop.

On Colombia: You really don't understand Plan Colombia (the actual plan - not the movie, which I haven't seen). The usual criticism of Plan Colombia is that the Colombian military destroyed legitimate crops while fumigating coca crops, not that they were destroying legitimate crops to force coca cultivation. Plan Colombia was a US-supported anti-cocaine campaign.

I have no doubt that there was Colombian corruption countering the positive objective of Plan Colombia, and there were adverse implications resulting in displaced farmers, and the effect were not immediately realized in the US due to cocaine's lead time to market,a and there was this underlying and sometimes conflicting "real" purpose of incapacitating guerrilla forces who fought against the Col. gov't and were funded by cocaine trade. But Plan Colombia itself was not, as you suggest, a means to increase coca production and get it on US streets. There is no indication that the US had any intent to increase cocaine volume into the US or jack prices from reduced supply. Price increases would actually be looked foreword to by the US because it is what they use as an indicator of a slowing importation rate.

 

[Shakerod]

You are missing my point. I think the Afghan farmers should be growing opium poppies (in a controlled manner). I don't think it's throwing gas on the flame, or at least not on one that wasn't already fully ablaze. It's a needed commodity and for now a fundamental and irreplaceable crop of Afghanistan's agrarian economy. The US and other NATO proponents are trying to control or guide the legitimacy of it, not profiteer. It's not so much faith in foreign policy as it is realizing that it's not a simple answer of eradicating or cultivating.

Did you know that the Taliban only banned opium poppy cultivation in 2001, and prior to that Afghanistan was still the top producer of opium poppies? It's not like Afghan farmers went from twiddling their thumbs to dealing smack as soon as the US arrived. The Taliban ban on opium poppies devastated the Afghan agrarian community, who already lived in one of the poorest and most drought-ridden countries in the world. Before the ban, the Taliban sanctioned opium cultivation as permissible because its derivatives were ostensibly consumed by non-muslims. But there is also strong suspicion that the Taliban opium ban was a ploy to drive up the value of the opium they had stockpiled. After the US invasion, the Taliban ramped opium production back up to support the insurgency effort. The UN estimate is that the Taliban made $300M on opium in 2006.

So since there is already evidence of what an outright ban on poppy cultivation does to the Afghan farmers, it's understandable why the US and NATO are cautiously negotiating the opium poppy industry in Afghanistan.

For what it's worth, I have a friend running an NGO in Kabul which argued against the US's initial inclination to just eradicate poppy crops. I get a bit of an inside scoop.

On Colombia: You really don't understand Plan Colombia (the actual plan - not the movie, which I haven't seen). The usual criticism of Plan Colombia is that the Colombian military destroyed legitimate crops while fumigating coca crops, not that they were destroying legitimate crops to force coca cultivation. Plan Colombia was a US-supported anti-cocaine campaign.

I have no doubt that there was Colombian corruption countering the positive objective of Plan Colombia, and there were adverse implications resulting in displaced farmers, and the effect were not immediately realized in the US due to cocaine's lead time to market,a and there was this underlying and sometimes conflicting "real" purpose of incapacitating guerrilla forces who fought against the Col. gov't and were funded by cocaine trade. But Plan Colombia itself was not, as you suggest, a means to increase coca production and get it on US streets. There is no indication that the US had any intent to increase cocaine volume into the US or jack prices from reduced supply. Price increases would actually be looked foreword to by the US because it is what they use as an indicator of a slowing importation rate.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree as to the reasons and motives for being in Afghanistan. As for 'Plan Colombia'. Try looking up Mena, Arkansas. This is the place where the CIA did drug drops in the middle of the night of bags of cocaine from South America when Bush Sr. was the CIA Director, and Bill Clinton their soon to be President was Governor of Arkansas. Most of the drugs ended up on the streets of L.A., but it also ended up in other major cities in the U.S.

 

[chilli]

Fox news is very pro republican

That's why I stopped watching it a long time ago.

I hate news agencies that are supposed to report news in an unbiased manner and then don't.

Anyways - American foreign policy is a joke, the only time they did any good was the 2nd world war/Korean war - and they were forced into the 2WW by Pearl Harbour. Everything else has been pretty well a joke.

Timhorton you really need to do more investigative reading, and stop believing what your fed through main stream media.

Rachel Maddow of msnbc would be a good start.

 

[snif]

I have been to /afghanistan and I laugh when I hear people say things like , it was banned there before 2001 ...hehehe
the king or president or any organised power only can barely control Kabul....the rest of the country is tribal.
they have zero control outside of Kabul....the tribal elders control the villages, and if a outsider comes in , he is killed or ignored and his power will only last a very short while then it goes back to the village powers and families... the yanks like to call them terrorists or war lords. but this system has been in place for thousands of years.... it wont change fast. if u go there it is like a time machine, going back 1000 yrs.
if anyone power wanted to change them , they will never do it with bombs and guns , maybe give everyone a t/v and radio and laptop and then bombard them with brainwashing for a couple of generations ...that would be the only way.... other than that there will be fighting for 1000 yrs and us or canada will loss in the end. ps the opium is awesome as is the black hash

 

[timhorton]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree as to the reasons and motives for being in Afghanistan. As for 'Plan Colombia'. Try looking up Mena, Arkansas. This is the place where the CIA did drug drops in the middle of the night of bags of cocaine from South America when Bush Sr. was the CIA Director, and Bill Clinton their soon to be President was Governor of Arkansas. Most of the drugs ended up on the streets of L.A., but it also ended up in other major cities in the U.S.

You think the opium poppy production is a reason for the US being in Afghanistan? I'm sure the US and NATO forces have more legitimate reasons for being there than controlling the opium trade. I have no idea if we disagree about reasons for being in Afghanistan because I don't think we were talking about it.

You have your timeline mixed up. Plan Columbia didn't exist when Clinton was governor. He signed it in 2000 when he was president around. CIA very well could have done done drug drops in Arkansas; however, it was not part of Plan Colombia. You may very well be right about CIA drug drops in Arkansas, but they didn't have anything to do with Plan Colombia.

Fox news is very pro republican. That's why I stopped watching it a long time ago.

I hate news agencies that are supposed to report news in an unbiased manner and then don't.

Anyways - American foreign policy is a joke, the only time they did any good was the 2nd world war/Korean war - and they were forced into the 2WW by Pearl Harbour. Everything else has been pretty well a joke.

Timhorton you really need to do more investigative reading, and stop believing what your fed through main stream media.

Rachel Maddow of msnbc would be a good start.

Or you need to stop believing everything you read on the internet.

I never wrote that Plan Colombia was a success. I did write that it was likely subjected to corruption and that there was certainly an underlying motive to destabilize revolutionary forces. I think this is a legitimate criticism of the plan. But, Plan Colombia was never a campaign to increase importation into the US or increase cocaine revenues. You show me your reputable sources that show otherwise.

MSNBC? I thought you wrote that you despised news outlets that didn't report in an unbiased manner? Or is it you despise news outlets which don't pander to your predisposition? MSNBC is as liberal as Fox is conservative. Neither is unbiased or particularly objective. Both are, for the most part, "news entertainment".

 

[Shakerod]

You think the opium poppy production is a reason for the US being in Afghanistan? I'm sure the US and NATO forces have more legitimate reasons for being there than controlling the opium trade. I have no idea if we disagree about reasons for being in Afghanistan because I don't think we were talking about it.

You have your timeline mixed up. Plan Columbia didn't exist when Clinton was governor. He signed it in 2000 when he was president around. CIA very well could have done done drug drops in Arkansas; however, it was not part of Plan Colombia. You may very well be right about CIA drug drops in Arkansas, but they didn't have anything to do with Plan Colombia.


Or you need to stop believing everything you read on the internet.

I never wrote that Plan Colombia was a success. I did write that it was likely subjected to corruption and that there was certainly an underlying motive to destabilize revolutionary forces. I think this is a legitimate criticism of the plan. But, Plan Colombia was never a campaign to increase importation into the US or increase cocaine revenues. You show me your reputable sources that show otherwise.

MSNBC? I thought you wrote that you despised news outlets that didn't report in an unbiased manner? Or is it you despise news outlets which don't pander to your predisposition? MSNBC is as liberal as Fox is conservative. Neither is unbiased or particularly objective. Both are, for the most part, "news entertainment".

No, I was just making a point that cocaine has been flown into the U.S. by the CIA for years, and in this particular era when Clinton was Governor of Arkansas in the early 80's they dropped it in Mena. In fact, part of the Iran-Contra scandal was the U.S. backed Contras flooding the L.A. market with cocaine, which was chronicled by San Jose Mercury investigative reporter Gary Webb in the book' Dark Alliance'. Why would you think 'Plan Colombia' would be any different? The U.S. has a huge credibility gap.

 

[mistressfreyja]

Poor busted poppy seed cups that will never get to `be.`

 

[Big Dog Striker]

After 2002, when the Taliban was brought down from power, Afghanistan steadily increased market share in the worldwide opium market up to the point to controlling almost 90% of it as of present time. No need to go to the Ivy League for this one. All the Big Boys and their folowers have to do is play the game, award construction and utilities projects, open up the mining industry, make them happy, not commit the same mistakes as Panama's Noriega, and they will end up in the higher echelons of the world's richest. Monetary controls is not strict yet. Pissed them off and they'll end up with Noriega in a jail cell in Miami.

 

[timhorton]

After 2002, when the Taliban was brought down from power, Afghanistan steadily increased market share in the worldwide opium market up to the point to controlling almost 90% of it as of present time. No need to go to the Ivy League for this one. All the Big Boys and their folowers have to do is play the game, award construction and utilities projects, open up the mining industry, make them happy, not commit the same mistakes as Panama's Noriega, and they will end up in the higher echelons of the world's richest. Monetary controls is not strict yet. Pissed them off and they'll end up with Noriega in a jail cell in Miami.

And what was the volume coming from Afghanistan before 2000, before the Taliban imposed the brief moratorium on production? I'm pretty sure it was upwards of 75% of the global poppy production. Afghanistan has always been the largest producer. It's what they grow there.