this will make you mad!! female sex trade workers in city infected with virus

[susi]

I have my suspicions for the people putting this stuff out. They dont want to differentiate street drug addicts from enterprising escorts because they want to make the industry look bad. Now some potential new client will read this study and think that out of 1500 escorts in van, 520 of them have HIV. If I was an escort I would have this thread removed.

wess, it was in the fucking sun....we need to know about this shit. what good will it do to remove the thread? you act as if i wrote the fucking article.

you are saying what we are saying fer christs sakes, just jerk off already...you are SO grumpy first thing in the morning...lol

 

[BJhunter]

The article says that "there are up to 520 sex trade workers in Vancouver"?!??!?!?


That figure has to be soooooo wrong and so easily disprovable right there. Surely to god that figure is way low, isn't it?

Most importantly, how many of those suck good cock?

 

[treveller]

Quit complaining and figure out what to do!

Holly, thanks for the study link. It is useless commenting on a newspaper article. Sorry I did that myself.

It looks like 300 out of 1500 sex trade workers in Vancouver proper have HIV. That reflects badly on all sex trade workers regardless of where you work, what services you offer and what you charge.

It looks like a number of health care professionals are trying to get more health care money out of the provincial government so they can provide better health care for infected sex trade workers. If this happens it will reflect well on all sex trade workers.

There are several thousand well off sex trade workers with a very personal stake in better health care for the survival workers. What are you going to do about it. What group do you want to support so that political pressure can be applied to the provincial government supporting the health care professionals that have already made submissions to government asking for better health care.

There are major opportunities here, with the recent study, the newspaper article, the election and in a limited sense the Olympics. These are interesting times.

 

[ShqTth]

Yes but nowadays, do you realize even BBFS is offered in MPs and who knows where else?...So really, the risks are there regardless of where you get it from.



I agreed with you in my post. A person who sells sex is still a person who sells sex whether it is through the internet, on the street, through the phone book or whatever.

Usually the ones on the street are the ones who don't shower after play and by the end of the night are really nasty smelling. So I don't agree they should be classified as the same.

 

[wess]

wess, it was in the fucking sun....we need to know about this shit. what good will it do to remove the thread? you act as if i wrote the fucking article.

you are saying what we are saying fer christs sakes, just jerk off already...you are SO grumpy first thing in the morning...lol

Even if you disagree we me, I am just making you aware. Im not grumpy. If I was thinking about getting into pooning and i came on this site (Pacific ESCORT review Board) and seen that 520 out of 1500 ESCORTS had HIV then I would never go near an escort.

I know some people have drug problems. Doctors also have drug problems but they are not living on the street.

Me jerking off is not going to put money in your pocket.

 

[treveller]

Pick a Group

So, no ideas yet? Try this.

There is info at http://www.wccsip.ca/BCCEC.html for the BC Coalition of Experiential Communities. If everyone got behind that group with whatever support they were comfortable providing there would be a better chance of getting government support for survival sex workers. Help them and everyone will benefit.

If you know of another group that would be a better focus for support and action then lets hear about it.

 

[Sit_on_my_face]

520 is personally what made me think they only looked at streetworkers. I can think of almost 100 indies, and look at the larger agencies (namely the Fox Den). There has to be more than 520 workers.

There is way more than 520 workers if you account street walkers, Indys, agencies, asian micros etc.

The number is a lot higher than whats quoted. Remember, when you read about numbers like this, 1 --- its a ball park estimate which is usually way off and 2nd.... it's mainly propaganda bullshit to make someone look good or scare people off!

It's the typical media garbage that they leaked out!

IMHO though, this article I think is projected towards mainly the low end street walkers.

 

[treveller]

Repeating mistakes

There is way more than 520 workers if you account street walkers, Indys, agencies, asian micros etc.
street walkers.

First read, then post. I made the same mistake earlier.

Read the study. It estimates there are 1500 workers in Vancouver. 520 is the high estimate for the number infected with AIDS, which is more likely 300 according to the study. You would have to look at the sources, which are given, to clear up remaining questions. The newspaper story miss-quotes the study and needs to be publicly attacked or corrected for that.

 

[susi]

Dear Ms. Susan Davis,

Thank you for talking to me on the phone today about your concerns arising from the report in the Vancouver Sun related to the BC Centre's paper. As I indicated, the focus of our paper was not adequately reflected in the reports today. There were three articles published this week of which I am enclosing copies with this letter and I am also enclosing a copy of the press release so that you get a full sense of the message that we were trying to convey around these issues. As I indicated, I am copying this correspondence to Kate Shannon who is a member of our faculty who has a specific interest in this area. I will touch base with her when she returns from Africa to follow up on these issues further.

Thank you once again for bringing your concerns to my attention.

Yours sincerely,

Julio S. G. Montaner, MD, FRCPC, FCCP
Professor of Medicine, Chair in AIDS Research and Head of Division of AIDS, University of British Columbia;
Director, BC Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS, St. Paul's Hospital, Providence Healthcare;
National Co-Director, CIHR Canadian HIV Trials Network;
President, International AIDS Society.

_____________________________________________________________

Dear Susan,

Please find below the Letter to the Editor that Dr. Montaner and his colleagues have sent to the Vancouver Sun.

Sincerely,

Kelly Hsu for
Julio Montaner, MD

Begin forwarded message:

From: Julio Montaner <jmontaner@cfenet.ubc.ca>
Date: March 5, 2009 2:27:50 PM PST (CA)
To: sunletters@vancouversun.com
Cc: Julio Montaner <jmontaner@cfenet.ubc.ca>, Bob Hogg <dr_bob_hogg@yahoo.com>,
Subject: Letter to the editor

Dear Editor,

We would like to make one point of clarification with respect to the news article published in today’s Sun entitled “One-quarter of Vancouver’s female sex trade workers infected with HIV”. The female sex worker estimate of HIV prevalence in 2006 is based on street-based female sex workers predominantly located in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside. This estimate does not reflect sex workers in other settings, such as escort services.

Sincerely,

Julio Montaner, Eric Druyts, Robert Hogg

Julio S. G. Montaner, MD, FRCPC, FCCP
Professor of Medicine, Chair in AIDS Research and Head of Division of AIDS, University of British Columbia;
Director, BC Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS, St. Paul's Hospital, Providence Healthcare;
National Co-Director, CIHR Canadian HIV Trials Network;
President, International AIDS Society.

Email: jmontaner@cfenet.ubc.ca
Alternate Email: kellyhsu@cfenet.ubc.ca (Assistant)

 

[wess]

I get your point now.

I was just thinking that everyone assumes that these statistics were only regarding the street dwellers. With a headline like that, some people might actually think the statistics included the escort industry.

 

[gpchillin]

The article was obviously written based upon an area with very low income very high crime rate and very high drug use and the sex workers are sure not the 300/hr escorts more like the 5$ crack addicts who will do anything with anyone for their next fix.

But ya I agree with a headline like that they sure made it sound a lot different then what it actually is.

 

[kafka555]

Some further correction of bad information in the media by Susan here:
http://www.metronews.ca/vancouver/local/article/192235

 

[moi]

Usually the ones on the street are the ones who don't shower after play and by the end of the night are really nasty smelling. So I don't agree they should be classified as the same.

Hmmm you should read all the MP reviews. Quite a few were posted of having leftover sheets, girls not showering, etc.

Unfortunately, we would all like to think everyone in this industry is clean, and MPs are cleaner than SW, SPs are cleaner, etc. but there are always a few bad apples mixed in. Same goes for drug users, ladies with pimps, etc. You can and will find them at an MP. Just depends where you go!!

 

[ShqTth]

A good thing at the Micros, you can shower with the girl, so then you know she doesn't stink like another guys sweat....

Some girls are just fucked up, and don't think about the clients. The more needy the girl, the more chances she is bad. The stuck up ones seems to be higher class, as they don't really care to have another client, they just go with the flow etc.( opposite of needy)

 

[spikedhair00]

Makes No Sense

The 11,000 men infected are as follows:
Gay men
Bisexual men
Injection drug users
Hetero...read below...

I'm sure there's a handful of hetero men that are infected, but even Health Canada doesn't have a category for that as the rate is so low and they can't even verify if the men were actually infected by a female.

These doctors, nurses, and everyone in the HIV/AIDS field knows that prostitutes have never been a vector for spreading HIV into the hetero community, but they don't want to say it because then those men that say they were infected from a woman will be outed as MSM or IVD users.

I don't think many people realize how many men there are out there that have sex with other men but don't consider themselves gay.

Just blows my mind.

Here's an interesting article:
http://www.poz.com/articles/229_1640.shtml

 

[wess]

The 11,000 men infected are as follows:
Gay men
Bisexual men
Injection drug users
Hetero...read below...

I'm sure there's a handful of hetero men that are infected, but even Health Canada doesn't have a category for that as the rate is so low and they can't even verify if the men were actually infected by a female.

These doctors, nurses, and everyone in the HIV/AIDS field knows that prostitutes have never been a vector for spreading HIV into the hetero community, but they don't want to say it because then those men that say they were infected from a woman will be outed as MSM or IVD users.

I don't think many people realize how many men there are out there that have sex with other men but don't consider themselves gay.

Just blows my mind.

Here's an interesting article:
http://www.poz.com/articles/229_1640.shtml

Some hetero guys get cought up in the ladyboy scene and they are the ones who dont consider themselves gay but if you look at some of the pics of these ladyboys then you could understand how they look at it.

 

[susi]

up date- from the author of the report

Obviously an incredibly disappointing and stigmatizing article, and a
horrible example of how research can be misrepresented in the media. As
Michael mentioned, the papers for the Maka Project can be found on the
WISH website - highlighting (as many of you know) how criminalization,
policing and violence can directly lead to poor health outcomes among sex
workers.

Attached is a response to yesterday's article that I am submitting to the
Vancouver Sun - our community partners, WISH and Sex Workers United
Against Violence (SWUAV) have read and supported the article, as has the
BC Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS.

I am away until the end of the week (so apologies on my delay on weighing
in)…

Kate


Reforming Canada’s criminalized sex work legislation, not sex workers,
need to be the target of HIV prevention efforts

Re: “One quarter of Vancouver sex trade workers infected with HIV”, March
5th 2009

The sensationalized story on a report authored by McInnes et al from the
BC Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS drastically misrepresents HIV rates
among sex workers. These rates were drawn from a 2006 study co-authored by
myself and the WISH Drop-In Centre Society. What Ms. Fayerman’s article
and the McInnes report fail to acknowledge is that this small sample of
women who exchange sex for survival also inject and smoke drugs, live in
poverty, and face extreme rates of violence, exploitation, and murder.

However, the major failure of Ms. Fayerman’s article is that it ignores a
large body of evidence and erroneously stigmatizes some of the most
vulnerable and criminalized women in Canadian society. In several recent
studies we have shown that enforcement of criminal sanctions targeting sex
workers are forcing women to work in dark, isolated areas, restricting
their access to safer indoor spaces, and directly reducing their ability
to negotiate condom use and protect themselves from violence. These
findings, supported by statements by the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon
at the UN High Level Meeting on HIV/AIDS in 2008, demonstrate that
reforming criminalized sex work legislation, not sex workers, needs to be
the primary target of HIV prevention efforts, both in Canada and globally.

Dr. Kate Shannon, British Columbia Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS;
University of British Columbia; kshannon@cfenet.ubc.ca


In both the Times Colonist and the Sun (Sun's version is shortened):
http://www.timescolonist.com/Health/work+study+missed+mark/1365015/story.html
http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/letters/study+based+solely+street+prostitutes/1364329/story.html

 

[wess]

I think most providers nowadays offer an accompanied shower upon request though. Doesn't hurt to ask.



Scarier yet, some of them don't realise they're doing a biological man. From behind whilst drunk with a skirt on perhaps. And for those who do know and identify as hetero. Well, while they're emotionally hetero (and attracted to a mental female), the act they're doing is still technically gay sex until she's post-op.

I know but some of the ladyboys, im just sayin

 

[not2old]

There was a letter to the editor in the Victoria Times Colonist from Jody Paterson today. (Jody Paterson is a local Victoria former journalist and sexy trade advocate) She addressed this very well.

Re: “One quarter of female prostitutes HIV-positive,” March 5

I’m writing to correct a major error in the reporting of findings from a B.C. Excellence in HIV/AIDS study. This study was essentially a review of existing literature around HIV/AIDS prevalence among high-risk populations in Vancouver, including survival sex workers in the Downtown Eastside.

However, the reporting wrongly extrapolated its findings to include all sex workers — the vast majority of whom are indoor workers (escorts, erotic massage, independents) who were never among the groups studied.

One of the primary myths around sex work is that those who do the work are vectors of disease. For those who work in the frequently miserable conditions of outdoor survival sex work, HIV/AIDS is obviously a risk due to high addiction rates and, perhaps more significantly, unwillingness to turn away customers who refuse to use a condom. Indoor sex work is a very different industry, however — one that has gone virtually unstudied and unreported on in Canada.

An estimated 80 to 90 per cent of Canadian sex workers are indoor workers. The limited studies that have been done on the tens of thousands of Canadians who work in the indoor industry have found dramatically lower rates of HIV/AIDS, violence, coercion and misery. Yet this group of workers is routinely lumped in with survival street workers for the purpose of sweeping statements on the fate and health of sex workers overall.

Sex workers are extremely stigmatized as it is, and feel the tremendous impact of that on their lives everyday. Research and reporting that overlooks the numerous differences between indoor and outdoor sex work can only perpetuate that. Jody Paterson Victoria

 

[treveller]

More Estimates

The study estimates 1500 survival sex workers in Vancouver then?

Jody Patterson estimates 80% to 90% of the total population is better off indoor workers?

So the total number of sex trade workers in Vancouver would be 7500 to 15,000?

Do these number sound right?