I completely agree, when I stated "wonder if there is...." I was just being polite
Sexual Harassment - You Have To Be Careful.
- Thread starter take8easy
- Start date
T8E, I may be dragged over a bed of coals for this response my man, but holy crap look at how POLITICALLY Correct
we have become compared to lets say 20-30 years ago to the point of having to be paranoid of what we say?
Jesus Christ.
Back in the 80's or even 90's it was called the sexual revolution and people just vied for the right line to get a gal or
guy to like them so they could maybe get laid. TODAY.............. you get sued or Jailed for the same thing.
FUCK ME!!!!!! Like I've said many times on this and other boards. I absolutely refuse to become an automaton
thinking human being that has this Political correctness crap shoved down my throat. Now don't get me wrong.
I don't treat women at all like an ogre or asshole, but for christ sakes what ever happened to idle chatter
over a few possibly sexual terms. BIG DEAL!!!
Like you in an office environment T8E at one time. My boss came up to me and asked me what my secret was.
I said what the hell you talking about? He told me I was laying half the staff. LOL!! I told him, man I'm not
saying anything to them that they are not saying to ME!! Fuck how times have changed and not for the better.
Excuse me for having offended anyone. I will move on. Shaking head here over the shallowness of some
human beings thin skin and politically correct thinking...See what I mean? It is sad.
....................QM'r
Wow QM’r.....only one thought comes to mind, Neanderthal..... :noidea::noidea:
My feeling EXACTLY......
Office environment is sooooooooo poisonsess it's crasy....
I see that the Fire Fighter's calendar is out....... where's all the tight ass people about it....
I got my ass dragged into HR for having a breast cancer calendar that use to come out.....
Unfortunately this is how our society is (de)evolving into a gynocentric imperative whereby it's no longer acceptable to be a male without the permission of the female...and it's truly messing up the delicate balances of man/woman dynamics. The quest for 'equality' is superseding the 'Order of Nature' where men and women aren't equal we are complimentary
Look at what the primary schools are doing to these young boys...there's no longer an emphasis on physical education (we called it gym class) and all their male energy that used to be burnt-off doing sports/activities create a 'restless kid' that's ADHD and needs to be medicated! Travesty! These young boys are being treated as 'defective girls' and given drugs to 'behave'. No wonder there's a proliferation of 'transgenderism'...these boys have grown-up thinking it's wrong to be what they are.
So what we have now are a few generations of men that are scared of women and consequently the women are wondering where all 'the men' are. Now office dynamics are fraught with land mines with every glance/phrase/joke that further separate the sexes. Our only defense from getting called into HR, (or worse) is to completely disengage from our genetic make-up or risk being called-out as a Neanderthal.
Look up the word feminism and you'll get this definition 'the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes' look up the word masculism (if it's even a word) and you'll find synonyms such as misogyny to describe it. Feminism has nothing to do with equality...
While I've always regarded myself as a feminist, the definition of that word has changed drastically in the generation since I started using it. Feminism USED to be about bodily autonomy & equal pay for equal work, & the idea that women could contribute to society in roles other than as wives & mothers, or in jobs that traditionally were only held by men. If two people are doing the same job, performing at the same level of competence, they should receive identical compensation, benefits & opportunities for advancement regardless of sex. PERIOD. Full stop. Men & women are also equal under the law & have equal rights of citizenship, including voting rights & the right to own or inherit property.
Radical feminism of the Andrea Dworkin school (all penetrative sex is rape; all men are rapists; marriage is slavery) has poisoned the well & undone the work of Germaine Greer, Gloria Steinem & Simone DeBeauvoir that kept women in the workforce once there were strong, healthy men to go back into the workplace after the wane of WWII. There is absolutely no purpose in denying that there are real differences between the sexes*, & to do so is foolish. While all fetuses start out as 'female' (which is why men have nipples, after all...), once the differentiation starts, hormonal influence establishes & affects fetal development. Men & women solve problems differently because there are differences in cognition, caused by the influence of estrogen & testosterone on early brain development. Pretending there are no differences between the sexes won't make them go away, & has caused more problems than it solves.
*Sex is a biological distinction, gender is a social construct.
Radical feminism of the Andrea Dworkin school (all penetrative sex is rape; all men are rapists; marriage is slavery) has poisoned the well & undone the work of Germaine Greer, Gloria Steinem & Simone DeBeauvoir that kept women in the workforce once there were strong, healthy men to go back into the workplace after the wane of WWII. There is absolutely no purpose in denying that there are real differences between the sexes*, & to do so is foolish. While all fetuses start out as 'female' (which is why men have nipples, after all...), once the differentiation starts, hormonal influence establishes & affects fetal development. Men & women solve problems differently because there are differences in cognition, caused by the influence of estrogen & testosterone on early brain development. Pretending there are no differences between the sexes won't make them go away, & has caused more problems than it solves.
*Sex is a biological distinction, gender is a social construct.
Ms Erica, I believe you and I are of a generation when the battle was an honourable one and needed to be fought. For awhile it worked. Now, it is as if the pendulum has swung to far.
Just for my clarification and I don't want to throw gas on this. I honestly don't know. I always thought the fetus started out as male and the clitoris was a repressed penis?
Maybe this is just another example of how men and women think different.
Well according to this, we're both kind of right & kind of wrong...
or equally half-correct?
http://factmyth.com/factoids/all-mammals-start-as-female/
or equally half-correct?http://factmyth.com/factoids/all-mammals-start-as-female/
Thanks. For the first time today I thought I was wrong, again.Well according to this, we're both kind of right & kind of wrong...
http://factmyth.com/factoids/all-mammals-start-as-female/
Oops ... almost fell in love reading that. But don't worry Ms E, I have impulse control.
Back to the thread title: instead of ranting about PC and its supposed evilness on society (which I still don’t get: what is so wrong about feeling empathy towards others and respecting them as equals?), think of the “Newspaper test”.
This works for ethics at work too: if what you are about to say was published on the front page of the newspaper, how would you feel about it? Do you think you’ll have to defend yourself or would everyone be able to read it and shrug? This “test” simply helps you to think about others across a broad slice, not just yourself or your buds.
Sometimes I do think the PC pendulum does swing a little far (eg, avoiding saying “Christmas”) but I think that’s more about individuals lacking some critical thought.
This works for ethics at work too: if what you are about to say was published on the front page of the newspaper, how would you feel about it? Do you think you’ll have to defend yourself or would everyone be able to read it and shrug? This “test” simply helps you to think about others across a broad slice, not just yourself or your buds.
Sometimes I do think the PC pendulum does swing a little far (eg, avoiding saying “Christmas”) but I think that’s more about individuals lacking some critical thought.
I believe they would call that sexual assault. Uttering statements would be harassment, physically making
contact is another story.
In my minds eye that would be no different than grabbing the ass of a girl serving you at a restaurant.
........................QM'r
On the work topic.
I spend the majority of my awake hours at work and the reason I am still working is I enjoy the social interaction of the workplace. I wouldn't be enjoying myself if I felt I was unable to interact with my fellow female employees, especially since 60% of my office is women. I don't think it's about being PC, it's just about maintaining a "respectful, professional" environment in the office. Many women (and men) clearly invest a great deal of time and effort in their appearance in the office; I don't believe there is anything wrong with a comment that recognizes the effort. And yes I'm talking "that's a great outfit" not "that really makes your boobs look good". We spend so much time at the office I feel we are giving into the "few" by bowing down to the PC agenda and living in fear. We are social animals, we thrive in a social setting, I'm not giving that up without a fight!
I spend the majority of my awake hours at work and the reason I am still working is I enjoy the social interaction of the workplace. I wouldn't be enjoying myself if I felt I was unable to interact with my fellow female employees, especially since 60% of my office is women. I don't think it's about being PC, it's just about maintaining a "respectful, professional" environment in the office. Many women (and men) clearly invest a great deal of time and effort in their appearance in the office; I don't believe there is anything wrong with a comment that recognizes the effort. And yes I'm talking "that's a great outfit" not "that really makes your boobs look good". We spend so much time at the office I feel we are giving into the "few" by bowing down to the PC agenda and living in fear. We are social animals, we thrive in a social setting, I'm not giving that up without a fight!
^^ Well said, 4p.
On the radio, I heard a lawyer describe the legal requirements for harassment - persistent OR egregious (not her exact words). Egregious is pretty clear-cut - an assault, fondling, groping, forced kiss, etc; just has to happen once. Persistent was more gray, but her words were: "what a reasonable person would consider harassment". I agree that no reasonable person would consider "that's a great outfit" as harassment; its a compliment on the clothing and the effort to look professional.
On the radio, I heard a lawyer describe the legal requirements for harassment - persistent OR egregious (not her exact words). Egregious is pretty clear-cut - an assault, fondling, groping, forced kiss, etc; just has to happen once. Persistent was more gray, but her words were: "what a reasonable person would consider harassment". I agree that no reasonable person would consider "that's a great outfit" as harassment; its a compliment on the clothing and the effort to look professional.
...it's how the comment(s) made the harassed 'feel' which is the slipperiest of all slopes. One can say 'that's a great outfit' with the non-verbal cues being received as 'lecherous' and thus creating a 'hostile' environment.
Working as a manager of a blue collar workplace for my last 20 years of my career the great outfit comment is a huge no no, unless you make the same comment to the men on the crew or office.....treating one sex different than the other in anyway can be seen as discrimination or of course favoritism, I have run across many situations where quite simply if I didnt adopt the practice in staff management that all my staff are the same sex I could have been entrapped, during discipline meetings I had woman lean over my desk or in one case she used the crew shower just before our meeting and came into my office with wet hair and braless without a union rep, I cancelled that meeting and told her I need her to have a rep as I normally did in meetings that dicipline was being handed out....there are so many ways I was able to avoid harassment charges by just not recognizing the sex difference and treating everyone the same...but it is a daily mine field as the guys also pulled the favoritism card.....
There is also this disconnect now, where activists crusade against slut shaming, and annunce that women can behave, say and dress any way they want, and men must never compliment them, criticize them or act upon what might be percieved as sexual provocation. It's a confusing world.
It's never okay to grope a woman without consent, but I liked telling men and women if I thought they looked nice. Now, I wouldn't dare - not even to a man.
And how many guys have done what I think is beyond stupid - send dick picks to someone without an invitation? Those might really come back to haunt them.
It's never okay to grope a woman without consent, but I liked telling men and women if I thought they looked nice. Now, I wouldn't dare - not even to a man.
And how many guys have done what I think is beyond stupid - send dick picks to someone without an invitation? Those might really come back to haunt them.
will have to get my femdom to read this thread, certain she is guilty of sexual harassment on me......
just kidding
just kidding
