It's not just about the technicalities: the current system absolutely does not elect candidates most of voters would choose. It does exactly the opposite - it ensures that the will of the majority of Canadians is ignored. Just due to this reason it has no right to exist. And if it does we should admit Canada is NOT a democratic society.
Federal election result: it just doesn't make any sense!
- Thread starter torcat
- Start date
Torcat, I think we are both saying that the system needs to change. Proportional representation would see a better level of representation, but it still wouldn't be perfect. But, larger electorates with multiple representatives may be one way to go.
Correct. But what puzzles me is that there are no major objections/protests/rallies/boycott of the current election system. People just go and vote though it has no impact or has exactly the opposite impact of what they expect. At the same time any school kid who knows some basic math can easily figure out that the system is unfair, rigged and fraudulent. Why would any reasonable and sane person even consider participating in anything like that?
I am in favour of any election system as long as it keeps the Green and NDP out of power. Fuck proportional representation if it means one more Green MP.
There is the anyone but Harper camp and I am of the anything but Green or NDP camp.
There is the anyone but Harper camp and I am of the anything but Green or NDP camp.
So.. you are saying that the 20+% of the population who have those political beliefs don't deserve to have their voice represented in Parliament?
That doesn't seem particular Canadian. Freedom of belief and speech is one of the reasons so many servicemen fought and died in anyone of a number of wars.
Who are you to judge that your beliefs are superior to others and that they should be disenfranchised because of their beliefs?
Green Parties exist in about 90 countries. I'm not sure what you find offensive with Green Parties when the guiding principles of many of those parties are ecological wisdom, social justice, participatory democracy, nonviolence, sustainability and a respect for diversity. These seem to accord well with the beliefs of many Canadians. The Green's have been members of a number of governments (coalitions), and don't seem to have done any specific damage. I also thought Elizabeth May was a particularly effective MP and apparently her electorate thought the same with over 54% voting for her. Given the power of the Green Party in Parliament, they must have felt she was still effective as she got a higher % of the vote in her electorate than most other MPs.
And there is an NDP equivalent in many countries as well... in many cases forming the government. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it is important that everyone in this country has the freedom to have their own opinion and to vote for the party they want. That is part of what democracy and freedom in the West is about.
Actually, it is almost the identical vote and seat percentages the Conservatives got in the last election. The number is bigger because there are more seats in parliament now.
Actually, he wont. You forget that he has a majority in parliament.
But, it may require a constitutional amendment, in which case he will also require 2/3rds of the provincial legislatures representing 50% or more of the population to approve it, as well as approval by the senate. If the Conservatives don't like the idea it wont happen.
The Liberals are at the center of the political spectrum, they are not "extremists".
One more thing....if we did have a system where there was a second round of voting if no one candidate got 50%+, then most all of those ridings would probably have been won by the Liberal candidate anyway, and the Liberal majority would likely be considerably larger than the 184 seats they did get. Some of the polls conducted before the election also included the question who the second preferred candidate was (the purpose was to determine what the vote cap for each party was). The Liberals were by far the preferred second candidate for both the Conservative and NDP supporters. Every riding where the Liberals came second in a three way race would have been won by them in a run off.
A system of run off elections would pretty much guarantee a Liberal government for the rest of our lives.
Just be glad Harper is gone...who else is there, Mulcair? lol come on...we didn't really have a great bunch to choose from. And yes this happened with the conservatives before and totally pissed everyone off! I also agree this doesn't feel like a democracy where each vote is counted, its incredibly confusing most people my age don't know how our government works. They only teach this in high school if an election is currently happening, which most of us missed before.
Harper should have resigned but honestly conservatives are just terrible, theres also Peter Mckay to thank for bill c36. If Harper put away his sociopathic narcisstic power hungry agenda aside and let someone else rule, maybe it wouldn't have been a majority of liberals.
Harper should have resigned but honestly conservatives are just terrible, theres also Peter Mckay to thank for bill c36. If Harper put away his sociopathic narcisstic power hungry agenda aside and let someone else rule, maybe it wouldn't have been a majority of liberals.
You can see the outcome on a riding by riding basis here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_by_riding_of_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2015
Most seats were won by more than 40% by the winner, and most of those were absolute majorities. In cases where it was less than 40%, most would have been won by the liberals, some by the conservatives and some by the NDP. My guess is that a second choice in voting going to the next round would have resulted in the Liberals winning around 200 seats.
In other words, the outcome would not be much different from what actually happened in the current system.
The parties ended up with vote totals well below 50% because in all three cases their support is heavy in some ridings and low in others. When you average all that out you get the overall 20-40% totals, but individual constituencies in most cases have clear winners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_by_riding_of_the_Canadian_federal_election,_2015
Most seats were won by more than 40% by the winner, and most of those were absolute majorities. In cases where it was less than 40%, most would have been won by the liberals, some by the conservatives and some by the NDP. My guess is that a second choice in voting going to the next round would have resulted in the Liberals winning around 200 seats.
In other words, the outcome would not be much different from what actually happened in the current system.
The parties ended up with vote totals well below 50% because in all three cases their support is heavy in some ridings and low in others. When you average all that out you get the overall 20-40% totals, but individual constituencies in most cases have clear winners.
I don't think you can necessarily blame McKay for c36. He was the justice minister, the supreme court decision required parliament to do something, and with a conservative government the path they would take was pretty clear. McKay had to do his job or resign, and c36 isn't something of sufficient importance for a politician to resign over. So he did what he needed to do.
I just realized that McKay came from an Atlantic riding, and that explains why he quit I think. It has been known for quite some time that Liberal support there was very high and he probably knew that when the next election came he was going to be defeated. For him it was better for future career prospects to go out while still on top, so he pre-emptively announced he would not stand for re-election when the election announcement was coming up. Better some newbie get thrashed at the polls, then perhaps a few years later when the party recovered he could come back as their white knight.
If Harper had stepped down the conservatives in theory would have had a better chance, but even so Harper cast a long shadow and those who had enough presence to replace him have been squeezed out a long time ago. I think that as a party it was healthier for them that the election worked out this way. There is no question that it was a rejection of him, and by proxy, of his sycophants as well. I think it would be difficult for any of them to step up as a strong leader without being tainted. It gives the party an opportunity to reorganize and coalesce around a new leader with a different philosophic outlook. If Harper and his cronies just hung in there, it would be difficult for the party to do the sort of deadwood pruning and reinvention necessary for them to return to government one day.
What you probably mean is that 'the Liberals are SUPPOSED TO BE at the center of the political spectrum'. But after 15 years of the 'Liberal' rule in BC I'm 100% sure they are extremists: they are more of a fraud ring than a political party. If they manage to downgrade the whole country to BC level that's gonna be the real disaster. So far baby Trudeau made quite a few idiotic and extremist statements, so I don't expect anything good out of it.
Don't try to speculate if it would be different in case of fair elections. Even if you believe results wouldn't be much different in this particular case, this is not an excuse to dump 60% of votes into the garbage bin. If Trudeau really wants to change the unfair election system, he should do it ASAP and announce new election right after that. Right now 60% of voters have clearly told him 'We don't want you and your party!' This we know for sure. Time to respect the opinion of the majority.
in fact, two things should be implemented in the government. 1. no one political party should be a majority. 2. to pass a bill/issue, it should have at least two third of the votes of all the MPs inside.
You're assuming he won't, but if he's smart he still will have all parties involved. I know, the potential is there because a majority, that he fluffs a lot of promises. We won't really know till Parliament is running again. From what I've seen of him so far, he might just follow through.
I think his true colors are beginning to show. See above post re BC Liberals and extremists comments. Another cry baby who didn't bother to vote then is pissed about the result.
Your research didn't even get you to fairvote.ca? How about the NDP, Liberals and Greens all vowing to abolish first past the post? How about the analysis of popular vote vs. seats that took place on the National immediately following the election? This has been on a lot of people's minds for this election.
Provincial and Federal parties share the name only. Did you not see Christy Clark being proposed to replace Stephen Harper as leader of the Conservatives? They have more in common.
I think the current parliamentary system is correct but it is Senate reform that can make the difference.
If the Senate was voted in by proportional voting then you would have two separate means of democracy to represent the people. Policies and laws would still be created by Parliament and the party system but the now elected Senate would be there to vet out the political machinations that don't pass the test.
If the Senate was voted in by proportional voting then you would have two separate means of democracy to represent the people. Policies and laws would still be created by Parliament and the party system but the now elected Senate would be there to vet out the political machinations that don't pass the test.
