Flu Shots

HunkyBill

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2008
1,435
171
63
I was about to get the flu shot. A friend of mine had booked an appointment for me and a few others at her workplace. They were free of charge. I had an urgent manner to attend to so I didn't get one.

I read a few years ago that the flu shot back then *may* have contributed to the H1N1. Now, in BC and Alberta I hear there are quite a bit of cases of H1N1. At least in BC, I haven't been able to find any info if the people in BC got the flu shot. If a large amount of hospital workers including nurses and doctors don't want to get the flu shot, what does that tell you?
 

UhOh

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2011
2,079
517
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I was very offended by your post. Yes Canada is a multicultural and very PC country so you have to be careful here. If you're not happy with this you can move to the conservative districts in the US where saying things like this is not frowned upon as much.
The internet might be too much of a minefield for you.
How anyone could automatically assume the worst from such a simple harmless question is amazing.
 
Jan 2, 2014
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The internet might be too much of a minefield for you.
How anyone could automatically assume the worst from such a simple harmless question is amazing.
I'm just saying. You have to be very careful and yes you have to filter yourself that's just the way the Canadian culture is and it's why Canadians are so nice. Especially in office and work environments even "a little" sexist remark is a big deal and could get you in trouble. The way he talked about having sex with SPs in his reply to me would be considered extremely sexist and mysogonistic though.

Edit: what I'm talking about can be seen even in our laws too where the Americans have the First Amendment but we don't have the equivalent here (less freedom of speech).
 

UhOh

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2011
2,079
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It was a question he asked on a pooners forum not a comment written for parliament. Chill out.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
5,489
8
38
on yer ignore list
I was very offended by your post. Yes Canada is a multicultural and very PC country so you have to be careful here. If you're not happy with this you can move to the conservative districts in the US where saying things like this is not frowned upon as much.
well that's the way some of us post here, calling a spade a spade - and you as the new member should be the one perhaps considering moving your presence to another venue if that doesn't suit you... as the old saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen
 

UhOh

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2011
2,079
517
113
well that's the way some of us post here, calling a spade a spade - and you as the new member should be the one perhaps considering moving your presence to another venue if that doesn't suit you... as the old saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen
He's been here less than a week and already shocked, I figured he stumbled in here by mistake while searching for Christian Mingle.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
5,489
8
38
on yer ignore list
Jan 2, 2014
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returning banned member.....
Agent White by any other name would be
stuffedbanana, ballzdeep etc.
I promise you I'm not stuffed banana or whatever. How would you even know that only the mods would know. I'd already be banned if I was him as the mods have been keeping a close look on me. I got a warning for writing something that was interpreted as sarcastic on another thread but I listened to the mod and never commented on that thread again. Take your detective skills elsewhere.
 

screwtape1963

Member
Sep 17, 2004
71
0
6
I'm just saying. You have to be very careful and yes you have to filter yourself that's just the way the Canadian culture is and it's why Canadians are so nice. Especially in office and work environments even "a little" sexist remark is a big deal and could get you in trouble. The way he talked about having sex with SPs in his reply to me would be considered extremely sexist and mysogonistic though.

Edit: what I'm talking about can be seen even in our laws too where the Americans have the First Amendment but we don't have the equivalent here (less freedom of speech).
Wow, when I read your first post, I thought you were just an overly PC git who wandered onto this board by mistake. (Who comes onto a POONER forum and then complains because people talk about having sex with SPs - and that could be seen to be sexist and misogynistic?) But then I read your Edit and realized that you aren't just an overly PC git, you're an ignorant and ill-informed overly PC git.

Hint for your reading list: Canada repatriated the British North America Act in 1982, at which point it was both renamed the Canada Act 1982 (also can be referred to as the Constitution Act 1982) AND it was amended to include something called the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (which over the intervening 30 years has commonly come to be referred to simply as "the Charter").

Go read it.

Pay special attention to Section 2 - Fundamental Freedoms.

In particular, read section 2(b). It is only contains 17 words, so you should be able to manage it. If need be, you can sound the words out verrrry slowwwly.

On second thought, to avoid any risk of you being unable to FIND the Charter let alone Section 2(b), here it is:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
...
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
...

Now, please, Professor High-and-Mighty Arbiter of all Things PC, explain to us benighted peons how Americans have a constitutionally protected right to free speech and we Canadians don't. I await your erudition with bated breath...

Sheesh! :doh:

BTW, does anyone here honestly think PERB would even be allowed to exist if we didn't have these basic democratic freedoms?

Now back to the actual thread topic:

Here's the thing, your immune system may be strong but others are not. While you are fending off that flu with barely a blip and still feeling pretty good, you could also be transmitting the disease to others less fortunate (the elderly, asthmatic, immunocomprimsed). For them the same flu could be severe even deadly with huge accompanying costs to health care. This is why the government wants you to do it, simple dollars and cents.

Btw, the flu shot for any given year just represents the manufacturers 'best guess' at which strains will be prevalent in the coming year. Some years they get it right, others not so much. It's hit and miss.
One possibility that people may want to consider is that a vaccine does not simply provide immunity for a single year - otherwise we would all have to get our tetanus and other shots renewed annually. Now it's true that each year, the flu shot is made up of the two or three strains that the experts guess are "most likely" to be the main culprits that year - and sometimes they get it right; sometimes not. But each year, the shot is usually made up of a new and different set than the shot the year before.

If you consider your flu vaccine not as a single-year shot but as an ongoing multi-year build-up of immunity, you start to get a very different picture of the results.

Children who get the flu shot every year at school, for example, by age 20 are receiving a shot protecting against the 2 or 3 most prevalent viruses that year - on top of the 30+ strains they are already inoculated against.

It's really a layered defence. And I don't think that aspect gets considered enough when the annual flu shots are discussed.
 

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
5,111
1,077
113
Upstairs
I was very offended by your post. Yes Canada is a multicultural and very PC country so you have to be careful here. If you're not happy with this you can move to the conservative districts in the US where saying things like this is not frowned upon as much.
When I saw this I assumed it was a facetious comment. Otherwise, the sanctimony and ignorance would be too great.

First - you didn't even consider what race I might be, but seemed to assume I was white, I suppose. How racist is that?

Second - you didn't consider I might have been making a geographical reference rather than racial. Asia takes in everywhere from Malaysia and India to Japan and Russia and a host of races. The fact was, I was referring primarily to AMP's because they employ mostly women visiting from Asian countries (NOT a specific race) so their knowledge of everyday newsworthy things and desire to follow the local news might not be as rigorous as residents.

Third - I grew up a minority and don't need a lecture from someone trying to prove how culturally advanced he is.
-------------

Now, back to the topic - From a CBC story...." the number of flu cases in B.C. is rising but the numbers are not unusual. However, people should still take precautions,...."
 
Jan 2, 2014
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Wow, when I read your first post, I thought you were just an overly PC git who wandered onto this board by mistake. (Who comes onto a POONER forum and then complains because people talk about having sex with SPs - and that could be seen to be sexist and misogynistic?) But then I read your Edit and realized that you aren't just an overly PC git, you're an ignorant and ill-informed overly PC git.

Hint for your reading list: Canada repatriated the British North America Act in 1982, at which point it was both renamed the Canada Act 1982 (also can be referred to as the Constitution Act 1982) AND it was amended to include something called the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (which over the intervening 30 years has commonly come to be referred to simply as "the Charter").

Go read it.

Pay special attention to Section 2 - Fundamental Freedoms.

In particular, read section 2(b). It is only contains 17 words, so you should be able to manage it. If need be, you can sound the words out verrrry slowwwly.

On second thought, to avoid any risk of you being unable to FIND the Charter let alone Section 2(b), here it is:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
...
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
...

Now, please, Professor High-and-Mighty Arbiter of all Things PC, explain to us benighted peons how Americans have a constitutionally protected right to free speech and we Canadians don't. I await your erudition with bated breath...

Sheesh! :doh:

BTW, does anyone here honestly think PERB would even be allowed to exist if we didn't have these basic democratic freedoms?

Now back to the actual thread topic:



One possibility that people may want to consider is that a vaccine does not simply provide immunity for a single year - otherwise we would all have to get our tetanus and other shots renewed annually. Now it's true that each year, the flu shot is made up of the two or three strains that the experts guess are "most likely" to be the main culprits that year - and sometimes they get it right; sometimes not. But each year, the shot is usually made up of a new and different set than the shot the year before.

If you consider your flu vaccine not as a single-year shot but as an ongoing multi-year build-up of immunity, you start to get a very different picture of the results.

Children who get the flu shot every year at school, for example, by age 20 are receiving a shot protecting against the 2 or 3 most prevalent viruses that year - on top of the 30+ strains they are already inoculated against.

It's really a layered defence. And I don't think that aspect gets considered enough when the annual flu shots are discussed.
You have major reading comprehension issues and clearly you only have a very basic understanding of the Charter. I learned what you very disrespectfully tried to "teach" me in grade 9. I never said we don't have freedom of speech in Canada, if you read what I said closely, you'll see that I said we have LESS freedom of speech than the US, which is true.

Are you excited to learn something new today?! This is because of the "reasonable limits" clause in the Charter. It means that if you say something questionable that can be interpreted as hateful and offensive, the legal system can decide whether you're allowed to say what you said.

We also have strong anti-hate speech laws that the Americans don't have. In the US, the KKK or neo-Nazis can legally organize demonstrations and march through the streets. In contrast, The Canadian Criminal Code makes advocating genocide or inciting hatred against any "identifiable group" an indictable offence with maximum prison terms of two to fourteen years.

Now I'm not saying either country's laws are better or worse but what I said previously stands true: Canada is by nature a more PC country and even our laws are reflective of this difference.
 

screwtape1963

Member
Sep 17, 2004
71
0
6
You have major reading comprehension issues and clearly you only have a very basic understanding of the Charter. I learned what you very disrespectfully tried to "teach" me in grade 9. I never said we don't have freedom of speech in Canada, if you read what I said closely, you'll see that I said we have LESS freedom of speech than the US, which is true.

Are you excited to learn something new today?! This is because of the "reasonable limits" clause in the Charter. It means that if you say something questionable that can be interpreted as hateful and offensive, the legal system can decide whether you're allowed to say what you said.

We also have strong anti-hate speech laws that the Americans don't have. In the US, the KKK or neo-Nazis can legally organize demonstrations and march through the streets. In contrast, The Canadian Criminal Code makes advocating genocide or inciting hatred against any "identifiable group" an indictable offence with maximum prison terms of two to fourteen years.

Now I'm not saying either country's laws are better or worse but what I said previously stands true: Canada is by nature a more PC country and even our laws are reflective of this difference.
Sorry, sonnyboy, but what you said was: "the Americans have the First Amendment but we don't have the equivalent here."

Which is an unbelievably ignorant and asinine comment for someone to make who supposedly learned in Grade 9 that Canada has the Charter.

And your attempt to patch it up in this recent "expanded commentary" by comparing the limits on "free speech" in the US Bill of Rights vs. the Canadian Charter isn't much more impressive - probably because you don't seem to understand where and how the limitations operate in the US (not that I think your understanding of them in Canada is all that great either).

Simply put, the US just uses a slightly different mechanism to apply its limitations on free speech, with the result that speech is limited in a slightly different manner but to much the same end result.

As a very simple example, in Canada, Zundel was prosecuted under the "anti-hate speech" section you referred to on the grounds that his writings denying the Holocaust ever happened promoted hatred against Jews. If he had been operating in the US, by contrast, he might very well have found himself charged under a similar state law outlawing the publication of such works on the grounds that they were "false statements of fact" - and therefore unprotected by the right of free speech. Or possibly, depending on context, as "incitement", "threats" or "fighting words". (I assume that you are aware that criminal law is a federal jurisdiction in Canada but a state one in the US, yes?)

BTW, where did you ever get the fat-headed idea that groups like the KKK or neo-Nazis can't parade through a street in Canada if they want? That's "freedom of assembly" and isn't covered by the "hate speech" clause. They just have to be a little more careful about what they put on their signs and what they yell as they march, that's all. (Although, to be fair, in Brandenburg v Ohio, the rather similar conviction of a KKK group in the US was only quashed because the State had failed to prove that the violence they were inciting was sufficiently "imminent"...)

Anyway, there was nothing whatsoever wrong with MY reading comprehension when I commented on your original post: it was your post that didn't say what you seem to think it said.

I do think you need to go back and sit through that class again, though, to learn the mechanism by which the "reasonable limits" clause in the Charter actually works... but that would take more time to discuss than I can be bothered spending in this post - which is on a thread about flu shots anyway.
 

screwtape1963

Member
Sep 17, 2004
71
0
6
@ screwtape1963

take a deep breath
remember its a thread on flu shots :eek:
you are be trolled
i am not sure it is even intentional - more a maladjusted.....
put down the logic gun and back away slowly:)
Good point, LuckyDick. I is putting down the keyboard now and going to make a mug of Irish coffee instead...
 
Jan 2, 2014
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Good point, LuckyDick. I is putting down the keyboard now and going to make a mug of Irish coffee instead...
So you honestly thought I didn't know about the Charter? Your entire argument before assumed I thought there is no freedom of speech in Canada, then you attacked that argument (strawman). Clearly I was talking about the limits and I explicitly pointed this out in brackets.

Your later post was an improvement but I still argue that the First Amendment allows a greater range of free speech and it's not just that the limits are applied differently. You can do more and say more "controversial" things as an American than as a Canadian.
 
Nov 27, 2013
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In all fairness, this quote from the author of the study mentioned should also be included.

Ms. Skowronski insisted the findings should not deter people from getting seasonal flu shots.

“I do think it’s important to clarify that our findings are unique to the pandemic,” she insisted.

“Pandemics are infrequent occurrences, but seasonal influenza recurs on an annual basis. It’s a substantial cause of morbidity and mortality,” — science’s term for illness and death — “and the seasonal vaccine substantially protects against that severe outcome due to seasonal influenza.”


-Toronto Globe and Mail
 
Nov 27, 2013
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In all fairness what should be noted is that the WHO changed it's definition of "pandemic" to fear monger the masses into getting flu shots
it all seems par for the course now but it was a year like any other
call it "conditioning of the masses"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...c-warning-recoup-billions-spent-research.html
http://www.wnd.com/2009/11/115719/
http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/16/sw...ic-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.html
Dude, according to your posting history...

-climate change
-western medicine
-link between HIV/aids
-flu shots

...all conspiracies by the man on the global level. There must be a whole lot of folks in on it.

I have my opinions and clearly you have yours. I'll leave it at that.
 

Poonertime

New member
Apr 1, 2011
1,020
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GVRD
Never have and never will.

I got my first cold in 7 years in December, otherwise I have been quite healthy. I am a firm believer in your own autoimmune system requires a certain amount of germs and viruses to build up an immunity against all other sorts of viruses. Everyone I know who gets the shot does get sick shortly afterwards.

The pharmaceutical companies have a sweet heart deal with all the health regions whereby all employees get the shot or be forced to wear a mask. Personally, I would choose a Darth Vader mask :nod:
I agree completely, and I was in Mexico when it broke out the first time. Also if I had a nickel for everyone I have met who was injured by the pharmaceutical medical, I would have an enormous sum.
 
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