Apparently, Krista Ford doesn't dress like a whore...stupid tweet!

violetblake

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Jul 24, 2011
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Yeah it's pretty insane that some people still think a rape victim can cause the assault in any way, shape, or form. It's been proven over and over and over again how a woman looks or dresses or acts has absolutely no effect on whether she'll get sexually assaulted. People like to blame the victim cause it's easier than knowing there's that many fucked up people in our society that would actually rape someone, but facts are facts. If clothing did cause rape at all, sexual assaults would be 0% in places like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia where women are covered head to toe. Clearly that's not the case- why? Because it's about how men are raised in a given society, whether they're taught to disrespect women or treat women as the equal human beings we obviously are. Only rapists cause rape- period. This isn't rocket science lol.
 

Gentle-man

The true gentle-man
Mar 10, 2011
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Yeah it's pretty insane that some people still think a rape victim can cause the assault in any way, shape, or form. It's been proven over and over and over again how a woman looks or dresses or acts has absolutely no effect on whether she'll get sexually assaulted. People like to blame the victim cause it's easier than knowing there's that many fucked up people in our society that would actually rape someone, but facts are facts. If clothing did cause rape at all, sexual assaults would be 0% in places like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia where women are covered head to toe. Clearly that's not the case- why? Because it's about how men are raised in a given society, whether they're taught to disrespect women or treat women as the equal human beings we obviously are. Only rapists cause rape- period. This isn't rocket science lol.
Well said!!!!:thumb: :clap2:
 

Bartdude

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Jul 5, 2006
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Glad to see the Fords are still bringin' the stupid.
 

jesuschrist

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You guys totally misunderstand her, but it's not really your fault. The limitations of the English language forces people to be polarized about the issue, whereas it takes only a bit of nuance to understand her position.

What she and others who have said similar things mean is, is that in an environment that might be hostile to your freedoms to dress any way you wish (or for that matter behave in any way one wishes a per the link Wilde made reference to), your dress might provoke a sexual assault out of those who have little control of themselves, and that the point being, not only should the offender be blamed, but that the person who knowingly provokes idiots by dressing that way should take the responsibility for putting oneself in harms way.

She is not saying women shouldn't have the right to dress that way, nor is she saying to blame the victim - which is a simple minded and ignorant conclusion to such a statement. Should we always have to fall back to the lowest common denominator and grasp nothing?

The collective outrage you guys express prevent discussion and shame people - and indeed she had to withdraw her remark, even apologize, without being given room to explain herself. I would think that it even shut down her developing mind, and prevented her from her truth and instead forced her to follow prescribed "acceptable" norms. You may think that you're being liberal, but in fact you're just being the same old conservative type you think you're standing against in your political correctness.
 
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vancity_cowboy

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Jan 27, 2008
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on yer ignore list
i watched an interview on tv a long time ago that a journalist had with a sex offender

the sex offender had managed, after many years in the slammer, to become a kind of poster boy for reformers, and was allowed, under supervision, to visit schools and participate in lectures to parents and their children on 'streetproofing' the kids against people like himself

to the interviewer he said that by the time he walked from the doorway of the classroom to the lecturer's table, he already knew which of the children in the room would be susceptible to being sexually assaulted!

to me, this was a horrifying revelation. it signified several things: firstly, that some people are just victims, and they have no control over that fact; secondly, that no matter how reformed a deviant may appear to be - they are still deviants and always will be, and they have no control over that fact either

he said even more horrifying things. if somebody ever tries to abduct you, and they are using a knife or a gun to do so, run! run, fight, scream... and never comply with their wishes, because if they are using a knife or a gun, then it is their intention to kill you when they are finished with you... jesus, wtf?

the interview was never repeated, and i was never able to get or find a copy of it - too bad, because there were GEMS of information in it. he said lots more - stuff that i've since forgotten

but the strongest impression i came away with was that there is not one person among us who has even a tiny clue what goes on inside the mind of a deviant personality, so mouthing platitudes about rape and child molestation etc. just doesn't cut it - it goes MUCH deeper than anything our minds can imagine, and to try to understand it is to try to see into the void
 

Tugela

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Oct 26, 2010
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Yeah it's pretty insane that some people still think a rape victim can cause the assault in any way, shape, or form. It's been proven over and over and over again how a woman looks or dresses or acts has absolutely no effect on whether she'll get sexually assaulted. People like to blame the victim cause it's easier than knowing there's that many fucked up people in our society that would actually rape someone, but facts are facts. If clothing did cause rape at all, sexual assaults would be 0% in places like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia where women are covered head to toe. Clearly that's not the case- why? Because it's about how men are raised in a given society, whether they're taught to disrespect women or treat women as the equal human beings we obviously are. Only rapists cause rape- period. This isn't rocket science lol.
I think people are missing the point of what she was saying, and that is to be aware of what is going on around you and to take proactive measures to avoid getting into a bad situation. I don't see how that can be taken as bad advice. The alternative is to tell girls to ignore their environment and not to take precautions, because it is the rapists responsibilty not to rape. However, that is cold comfort after the fact. No one would advocate walking through a bad part of town at midnight with all your bling hanging out on the grounds that it is muggers who are responsible for mugging, not you. Most people understand that it is better to avoid being mugged as best possible under the circumstances you find yourself in. You are not responsible for being mugged but you are responsible for not exposing yourself to that risk, as best as you can.

As far as clothing and how you dress affects rape, it is not black and white. An active predator won't care how you dress, they will act on opportunity because they are hunting victims. The serial rapists that make the news are all active predators. The thing is, most rape is not carried out by predators, it is carried out by regular guys on an irregular basis, and they will mostly respond that way when their interest has been aroused, not because they are actively hunting. When someone dresses in a way intended to attract sexual interest they are going to recieve it. Some of that interest is going to be wanted, but most of it will be unwanted. There is no filter for that. And some of that unwanted interest is going to come from people with shaky boundaries, and that could lead to sexual assault in one form or another. Mostly verbal, but sometimes more than that. A woman walking down the street in a sexy revealing outfit is going to be attracting a lot of attention from men, and that attention is going to be specifically because they are sexually interested in her as a result of her dress, not because they admire her mind or her skills. For some guys it is going to be more than just looking, some guys are going to say things, some are going to pursue, and yes, some of those are going to try to force their presence on her.

So, what this woman is saying (and others like her), is that you need to be aware, aware of how you act, where you act, how you are percieved. She is saying that walking like Bambi into a pack of wolves is just plain dumb. Maybe Bambi has the right to walk into a pack of wolves, but that wont stop her from being eaten. It is better to avoid the wolves, and to avoid being Bambi, unless you are Bambi armed and ready to defend. It DOESN'T mean that you can't dress in a certain way, but it DOES mean that you need be reactive and proactive if you do, otherwise you might have an experience you probably aren't going to treasure.
 

PlayfulAlex

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Jan 18, 2010
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http://www.wmtc.ca/2012/08/the-saddest-part-of-krista-fords-tweet.html

Gentlemen, thank you for the things you have said, but it`s not necessary to add that we`re missing the point, and that this is what she meant to say. She said what she said (in her tweet), "Stay alert, walk tall, carry mace, take self-defence classes & don’t dress like a whore."

Her tweet was an insensitive, immature, thoughtless, egotistical, arrogant comment, that heaped blame on victims of sexual assault. And, unwittingly, I`m sure, your comments express equal amounts of ignorance.

Everyone knows, from a young age, that our actions come with consequences. Yes, we all know not to walk in dark alleys, with our bling hanging out, in the ghetto. Get a life! This isn`t about that. We learn not to walk too near the gang of bullies, or we might lose our lunch money.

I have friends who visit from the US and they are shocked that, in Vancouver, women walk home from the bus stop after dark. Here, we exhibit strong tendencies towards human liberty, and female safety does go with that. Is is perfect? Of course not. But it`s better here than many other places in the world!

Bringing up the issue of what a woman was wearing when she was sexually assaulted takes away from the heinousness (I think I made that word up) of the crime. She could just as well have been sexually assaulted if she was wearing a winter jacket and snow boots.

It gives society a way of reducing its collective responsibility for the nature of safety in a city. It says that if you dress in a more nondescript manner, you are less likely to get sexually assaulted. The opposite of which is, if you got sexually assaulted, and you were wearing anything that was not nondescript, then you were partly to blame for the assault. It takes away from the real issue that you were assaulted, and that the perpetrator deserves the full consequences of his actions. He doesn`t get to share the blame with the victim somehow because, had she been wearing less provocative clothing, he might not have been as likely to assault her. That`s a crock of shit, and you know it!

https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-name-poll-closes-tonight&highlight=slut+walk
 
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jesuschrist

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Aug 26, 2007
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Gentlemen, thank you for the things you have said, but it's not necessary to add that we're missing the point, and that this is what she meant to say. She said what she said (in her tweet), "Stay alert, walk tall, carry mace, take self-defence classes & don’t dress like a whore."

Her tweet was an insensitive, immature, thoughtless, egotistical, arrogant comment, that heaped blame on victims of sexual assault. And, unwittingly, I'm sure, your comments express equal amounts of ignorance.
I stopped reading right there, and that's because you're saying you're not open to discussion. So your opinion to me is null and void.
 

wilde

Sinnear Member
Jun 4, 2003
3,040
44
48
You guys totally misunderstand her, but it's not really your fault. The limitations of the English language forces people to be polarized about the issue, whereas it takes only a bit of nuance to understand her position.

What she and others who have said similar things mean is, is that in an environment that might be hostile to your freedoms to dress any way you wish (or for that matter behave in any way one wishes a per the link Wilde made reference to), your dress might provoke a sexual assault out of those who have little control of themselves, and that the point being, not only should the offender be blamed, but that the person who knowingly provokes idiots by dressing that way should take the responsibility for putting oneself in harms way.

She is not saying women shouldn't have the right to dress that way, nor is she saying to blame the victim - which is a simple minded and ignorant conclusion to such a statement. Should we always have to fall back to the lowest common denominator and grasp nothing?

The collective outrage you guys express prevent discussion and shame people - and indeed she had to withdraw her remark, even apologize, without being given room to explain herself. I would think that it even shut down her developing mind, and prevented her from her truth and instead forced her to follow prescribed "acceptable" norms. You may think that you're being liberal, but in fact you're just being the same old conservative type you think you're standing against in your political correctness.
That's the biggest pile of shit I've read in a while, thanks. By your logic, if an aid worker goes to Afghanistan (an environment hostile to one's freedom) and gets kidnapped, the aid worker should take responsibility for being kidnapped.
 

Volpina Vance

Vancouver Vamp
Jul 5, 2010
322
0
16
Vancouver, BC
I think people are missing the point of what she was saying, and that is to be aware of what is going on around you and to take proactive measures to avoid getting into a bad situation. I don't see how that can be taken as bad advice. The alternative is to tell girls to ignore their environment and not to take precautions, because it is the rapists responsibilty not to rape. However, that is cold comfort after the fact. No one would advocate walking through a bad part of town at midnight with all your bling hanging out on the grounds that it is muggers who are responsible for mugging, not you. Most people understand that it is better to avoid being mugged as best possible under the circumstances you find yourself in. You are not responsible for being mugged but you are responsible for not exposing yourself to that risk, as best as you can.

As far as clothing and how you dress affects rape, it is not black and white. An active predator won't care how you dress, they will act on opportunity because they are hunting victims. The serial rapists that make the news are all active predators. The thing is, most rape is not carried out by predators, it is carried out by regular guys on an irregular basis, and they will mostly respond that way when their interest has been aroused, not because they are actively hunting. When someone dresses in a way intended to attract sexual interest they are going to recieve it. Some of that interest is going to be wanted, but most of it will be unwanted. There is no filter for that. And some of that unwanted interest is going to come from people with shaky boundaries, and that could lead to sexual assault in one form or another. Mostly verbal, but sometimes more than that. A woman walking down the street in a sexy revealing outfit is going to be attracting a lot of attention from men, and that attention is going to be specifically because they are sexually interested in her as a result of her dress, not because they admire her mind or her skills. For some guys it is going to be more than just looking, some guys are going to say things, some are going to pursue, and yes, some of those are going to try to force their presence on her.

So, what this woman is saying (and others like her), is that you need to be aware, aware of how you act, where you act, how you are percieved. She is saying that walking like Bambi into a pack of wolves is just plain dumb. Maybe Bambi has the right to walk into a pack of wolves, but that wont stop her from being eaten. It is better to avoid the wolves, and to avoid being Bambi, unless you are Bambi armed and ready to defend. It DOESN'T mean that you can't dress in a certain way, but it DOES mean that you need be reactive and proactive if you do, otherwise you might have an experience you probably aren't going to treasure.
This operates on the false assumptions that rape occurs between strangers and as a result of lust. I'm not going to devote time to posting easily searchable literature. I feel very comfortable asserting that 1) Most rapists know their victims (as in, something like 80% of rape cases...) and 2) the most identifying feature of "random" (predatorial) rape is the rapist's attitude of vengeance about some perceived harm done him by a woman/ by women combined with a despicable lack of respect for the personhood of [his] victim.
 

violetblake

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Jul 24, 2011
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It's a proven fact the vast majority of sexual assaults are perpetrated by someone known to the victim. So, in that case clothing wouldn't have anything to do with it. Walking alone at night wouldn't have anything to do with it. It's not about sex, it's about power. And YOU guys are missing the point: rapists don't rape sluts, they rape women. Having a vagina is what puts you at risk, not what you wear or how you act. This is not just my opinion, this is a fact. Based on dozens and dozens of studies by dozens and dozens of different organizations over years and years. We're not just making this up cause we want to, THESE ARE FACTS.

I'd also like to add that for all the time our society wastes trying to tell victims how not to be victims (an impossible task), why don't we start trying to teach rapists not to be rapists? Rapists are not some creepy guy you can spot a mile away. Rapists come in all forms, and the scariest part is that we probably all know someone who has raped somebody. So why don't we start devoting all our valiant efforts of ending rape to something that would actually end rape: targeting the only people who cause it.
 

Volpina Vance

Vancouver Vamp
Jul 5, 2010
322
0
16
Vancouver, BC
It's a proven fact the vast majority of sexual assaults are perpetrated by someone known to the victim. So, in that case clothing wouldn't have anything to do with it. Walking alone at night wouldn't have anything to do with it. It's not about sex, it's about power. And YOU guys are missing the point: rapists don't rape sluts, they rape women. Having a vagina is what puts you at risk, not what you wear or how you act. This is not just my opinion, this is a fact. Based on dozens and dozens of studies by dozens and dozens of different organizations over years and years. We're not just making this up cause we want to, THESE ARE FACTS.

I'd also like to add that for all the time our society wastes trying to tell victims how not to be victims (an impossible task), why don't we start trying to teach rapists not to be rapists? Rapists are not some creepy guy you can spot a mile away. Rapists come in all forms, and the scariest part is that we probably all know someone who has raped somebody. So why don't we start devoting all our valiant efforts of ending rape to something that would actually end rape: targeting the only people who cause it.
Hear, hear! :clap2:

In a society where the vulnerable don't fear or suffer attack, imagine how much more productive and happy they could be!
 

overdone

Banned
Apr 26, 2007
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wilde;1308218 By your logic said:
if you put yourself in a situation that you know is dangerous, then you would have to be stupid not to expect something dangerous to possibly happen

unless they were sent there by our gov't, it was their choice to go, just like Amanda Lindhout

it's called personal responsibility for a reason
 

Volpina Vance

Vancouver Vamp
Jul 5, 2010
322
0
16
Vancouver, BC
"Personal responsibility" does not protect children from sexual abuse or adults from sexual coercion and assault in assumed "safe" situations. Within a culture of blaming the victim, no place is safe.
 

overdone

Banned
Apr 26, 2007
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I was only commenting on Wilde's comparing this threads topic to a completely different situation that is completely within an adults control as in not going into a war zone and then complaining that one gets caught up in the shit.

A war zone and a civilized society aren't exactly similar situations

In a civilized society one should expect to walk the streets safely, no one should in a war zone
 
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