Ukraine is now at war with Russia - official and only Ukraine Thread

[badbadboy]

What he's saying: Putin said the military operation would be intended to "demilitarize and de-nazify Ukraine," but not to occupy it. (Axios)

The long anticipated attack by Russia is now on tonight. Putin has threatened any country interfering with their attack will suffer the consequences. In other words don’t come to Ukraine’s defense while we beat the crap out of them.

I’m no expert on world economics but what I’ve read so far is the US has stopped the flow of all Russian money transactions. Since most of Russia’s oil sales is completed in USD this will slow the flow of $ back to Russia. Sales of any Russian bond instruments is also stopped.

I had hoped I would live my life without a WW III but now that seems unrealistic. Should the Chinese decide to smack the Americans in the Pacific it will put all of us into a war.

I don’t even want to think about ‘what if someone uses the nuke option’?

Stay safe everyone.

 

[Forum mod]

Russia is about to get crippled with sanctions that make Iran look like a picnic. Putin does not seem to give a shit. The west will want to really break his balls, and given they won't do it with guns, it will be economic. Russia has already threatened to come back at the west for that, probably cyber attacks. If they go after the US infrastructure, even old Trump the Putin lackey will have to take a hard line.

This won't end well.

Having just hosted the Olympics and still the Paralympics to go, hopefully China behaves, or BBB is right, this will get real ugly, real fast. If Putin gets away with it, no way China doesn't at least take a stab at Taiwan.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

The Russian population has been more or less stagnant since the 70's in the 145M range. Their GDP though surprised me when I started to look up where various countries stood in the pecking order. Found this illustrative graphic:



I had to search a bit to find Russia and had no idea they were that far down the list. Then if you look at their economics and what do they really sell/export, it gets down to ... yup, Oil and Gas. Then look at Ukraine sitting there well situated with some great ports, I have been thinking this is really all about money and pipelines to those ports. And Putin loves money ...

Also I don't think anyone can discount that Putin has a small man complex who has to do this just because. In my opinion he is probably the world's best spy. Not written with any degree of admiration, just stating what I have picked up so much of this has been orchestrated for decades.

Whose next is the question and that answer could be very frightening ...

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

Trump and the Fox News right are cheering Putin on, they want him to succeed and Biden to fail, the Alternate Universe is strange indeed.

 

[604jbear]

This is what really has me concerned, never underestimate a crazy man

Russia attacks Ukraine as defiant Putin warns US, NATO (msn.com)

" President Vladimir Putin cast aside international condemnation and sanctions and warned other countries that any attempt to interfere would lead to “consequences you have never seen.” "

 

[westwoody]

Putin told his people he will make Russia great again. He is old and running out of time.
Being a belligerent asshole is all he can do, the old “let them hate me as long as they fear me” strategy.
Russia’s GDP is 80% of Canada’s in that graphic. This adventure could ruin the Russian economy if it lasts very long.
Russia has been a shit hole country for a thousand years despite having every natural resource in abundance and a respectable tech sector.

 

[westwoody]

Trump and the Fox News right are cheering Putin on, they want him to succeed and Biden to fail, the Alternate Universe is strange indeed.

Trump and Fox management need to be hung for treason.

 

[angry anderson]

This is what really has me concerned, never underestimate a crazy man

Russia attacks Ukraine as defiant Putin warns US, NATO (msn.com)

" President Vladimir Putin cast aside international condemnation and sanctions and warned other countries that any attempt to interfere would lead to “consequences you have never seen.” "

Who else uses this favorite catch phrase? "like you have never seen" line? Oh yes. Trump

 

[angry anderson]

Putin told his people he will make Russia great again. He is old and running out of time.
Being a belligerent asshole is all he can do, the old “let them hate me as long as they fear me” strategy.
Russia’s GDP is 80% of Canada’s in that graphic. This adventure could ruin the Russian economy if it lasts very long.
Russia has been a shit hole country for a thousand years despite having every natural resource in abundance and a respectable tech sector.

And yet he claims everybody wants to invade it. Agreed about the shit hole country part. However, his claim to be worried about NATO on his doorstep doesn't seem to scare him enough to start a war.

 

[marsvolta]

hoping that NATO stands up as well... and supplies the Ukraine insurgency. a deep hole for Putin for the next 10 years that will bankrupt his oligarch base.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

hoping that NATO stands up as well... and supplies the Ukraine insurgency. a deep hole for Putin for the next 10 years that will bankrupt his oligarch base.

The one thing that Reagan did that helped the West was the Star Wars program (Strategic Defense Initiative) launched in the mid 80's. That spurred a massive development in advanced tech, the intent to apply it into the industrial military complex. I was in lasers back then and the money the US was pouring into this was a 48" pipeline with no shut off valve! Salesman's dream!! The Soviet Union did not have the money to keep up and as they tried, they just ran out of room, being distracted from trying to keep the USSR together.

This is different as Putin had a few years of getting inside detail from 45's administration, and there has been a "degradation?" in general of the West's stomach to stand up to this asshole, but if this gets into something similar Russia will run out of money ... unless they get propped up by China. A nuclear option still is mutually assured destruction, even if tactical.

So it will be sanctions so that any legal trade with Russia will be cut off, assets being frozen anywhere possible and in any country willing and more than likely a very ugly war in the Ukraine. Lots of innocents will have their lives changed forever.

 

[westwoody]

All the oligarchs have taken as much money as they can out of Russia. They were afraid after Putin seized the assets of a few of his rivals years ago. He can’t depend on their money.

Russia cannot afford a protracted conflict. Modern tanks @$5 million each, can’t afford to lose much stuff like that. Estimates are Putin has committed 75% of Russian military assets to this campaign. If Chechens and Jihadis start acting up he may be over stretched.

 

[FreeG]

Trump and the Fox News right are cheering Putin on, they want him to succeed and Biden to fail, the Alternate Universe is strange indeed.

I just looked at Fox News and there was an article titled “Putin the Terrible” or something. I was shocked! A non-pro-Russian title! (I didn’t click on it; just going to the website makes me want to wipe my phone completely clean…)

I don’t see this ending too well; I think the West is correct I’m not intervening militarily,but Sanctions tendto only hurt the common folks and if anything, might embolden their support for Putin. “See guys? Putin was right! The West is trying to hurt us!” The other countries that have had big sanctions seem to be ticking along without much pause and still causing trouble for decades: NK, Iran, Cuba (until recently, I think their sanctions are mostly lifted). Not sure what alternative there is tho…

IMO the biggest threat from Russia right now is cyber: cutting off that access (publicly or secretively) needs to be the top priority, their cyber has proven very strong and dangerous for years.

I also agree China won’t do much - they’ve rattled their swords on Taiwan for decades too but no indication of any threat that I’ve heard and they’re very closely tied economically together. As long as Taiwan doesn’t do something dumb and give China an excuse to “save face” from an insult, I think that pot will just continue to simmer. But I can foresee China making more inroads around various islands and other countries, as they’ve been doing for decades (Spratley, Sri Lanka, Spice Road, etc), knowing the US is too weak and distracted to counter.

 

[80watts]

China and Russian depend on exporting to the West and Africa. A conflict will only decrease their economy, because if you wreck the west economy, where do you sell your products. As said above Russia depends on oil for money, any intelligent person from Russian has moved away in the last 30 years. As for China, its economy is now the largest in the world( look at any product labels- made in china), but it has growing pains like over inflated real estate prices, which could crash its major banks.
When the going gets tough for the economy, alot of stupid leaders think a short term conflict will be the answear. WW1 and WW2 started out as short-term conflicts, that eventually drew every major country into the Wars. Both did not turn out so well for the idiots starting the wars.
If the west starts to lose any conflict, the west will use nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons are first strike weapons. Nuclear war means nuclear winter, no crops for years on end... no food, the population on both sides plumnets due to starvation, if not out right radiation sickness.
Russia has to blame itself for allowing the oligarchs to plunder Russia of wealth and hence it prosperity. The Ukraine has always been the bread basket for Russia, without it they starve.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

... As for China, its economy is now the largest in the world( look at any product labels- made in china) ...
... If the west starts to lose any conflict, the west will use nuclear weapons...

US GDP is more than a third larger than China, volume of product labels don't count.
NO. An extinction war will not be started by any western country using nukes.
The West will sanction Russia which is what is happening now, freeze any out of country assets and make life as difficult as possible for their state. As noted prior, the Russian people may then blame the west but there are enough information channels there that opposition will still survive, novichok or not.
This is not a war by the Russian people, it is Putin shooting more than tigers out in the wilderness.
Maybe the fucker has syphilis and its affecting his brain.

 

[marsvolta]

I just looked at Fox News and there was an article titled “Putin the Terrible” or something. I was shocked! A non-pro-Russian title! (I didn’t click on it; just going to the website makes me want to wipe my phone completely clean…)

most of Fox web stories are slamming the invasion... the comments overwhelmingly blame Biden for this... they get pretty confused though when i ask "is it Biden and NATO's fault for being weak? or is Putin a savvy genius who deserved to keep Ukraine and the US should get out of NATO?".

 

[80watts]

US GDP is more than a third larger than China, volume of product labels don't count.
NO. An extinction war will not be started by any western country using nukes.
The West will sanction Russia which is what is happening now, freeze any out of country assets and make life as difficult as possible for their state. As noted prior, the Russian people may then blame the west but there are enough information channels there that opposition will still survive, novichok or not.
This is not a war by the Russian people, it is Putin shooting more than tigers out in the wilderness.
Maybe the fucker has syphilis and its affecting his brain.

For GDP- thats another thread.
Depends: https://media.defense.gov/2018/Feb/02/2001872879/-1/-1/1/NUCLEAR-DETERRENCE.PDF
Nuclear deterance usually means that "we have them, and if you use them, we will use them". But it never says they will not strike first. In the news it says that 75% of Russian Conventional Forces are at the Ukraine border. That means thousands of tanks and artillery ( the cold war solution to this was tactical nuclear weapons). Also Putin has warned NATO not to interfer, from what is implied he could go nuclear.
The increased sanctions will not persuade Putin (little Hitler) from his goals in the Ukraine.
Yes I agree with you he most likely has syphilis affecting his brain or Alzheimer s.
Hitler annexed Sudetenland in 1938, and the rest of Czechoslovakia in 1939. Little Hilter annexed Crimea 2014 and the rest of the Ukraine in 2022. Might of been sooner except for Covid.

So an insane individual, who has nuclear weapons at his disposals..... It dosn't matter if the Russian people don't want war, Putin has the people in the right jobs to do whatever he fucken wants to.

Scary huh!

 

[Forum mod]

As expected, China is working hard to back Russia, refusing to call it an invasion, blaming US and importing Russian wheat. By the world not coming down harder on them in 2014 when they annexed Crimea, the stage was set for this.

 

[Mrmotorscooter]

 

[LLLurkJ2]

As expected, China is working hard to back Russia, refusing to call it an invasion, blaming US and importing Russian wheat. By the world not coming down harder on them in 2014 when they annexed Crimea, the stage was set for this.

Also, further sanctions are being resisted by Italy and Belgium. The first wants an exception for luxury goods and the second wants an exception for diamonds.