Senate Rejects Extension of Patriot Act

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luckydog71

luckydog71

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Oct 26, 2003
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Actually, I see this as the DEMS acknowledging the Bush campaign against the terrorists is working.

All of the DEMS (except 1) voted for the patriot act the last time.

The patriot act has not changed this time around.

Therefore there must be a reason why the DEMS have voted differently this time than last.

- The most obvious one is the terrorists threat is less now and the patriot act is no longer needed. I disagree with that position, but it is one explanation why they changed.

I guess the second most obvious reason is this is completely political. The DEMS want to use this as a campaign issue. They would all be in Kerry’s camp. They voted for the patriot act before they voted against it. For once the DEMS would be in agreement.

I heard one news commentator say the DEMS are playing with fire and I agree. The US is still under a threat of attack. Should there be a strike next year there will be a huge push to prove that if the patriot act been renewed the attack could have been prevented. It will be all GOP spin but you can be sure that will be the message.

I do not like the patriot act either, but we are at war. In WWII Americans of Japanese descent had their possessions confiscated and they were placed in concentration camps for the duration. That was obviously way over the top and we should never repeat that mistake. But there is precedence for infringing on civil liberties during a time of war.
 
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Sigpig02

The pooning Soldier
Mar 22, 2005
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Funnily enough Canada had something like your Patriot act on the books called the War Measures act. It was removed in 1982 when our current Charter of rights and freedoms was put into law. The PM at the time Pierre Elliot Trudeau envoked it during the Quebec Crisis in '70 and after that he decided that no government should have such power. Hopefully for you guys the patriot act would be removed and never come back. No Government anywhere should have such power. Just my two cents on this.
 
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Cali Scott

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Jun 19, 2005
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Sigpig02 said:
Funnily enough Canada had something like your Patriot act on the books called the War Measures act. It was removed in 1982 when our current Charter of rights and freedoms was put into law. The PM at the time Pierre Elliot Trudeau envoked it during the Quebec Crisis in '70 and after that he decided that no government should have such power. Hopefully for you guys the patriot act would be removed and never come back. No Government anywhere should have such power. Just my two cents on this.
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What was there in place in lieu of the Charter between 1867 and 1982; Just the British legal precedents regarding rights?
 
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smackyo

pimp supreme
May 18, 2005
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Cali Scott said:
Taking a quick skim through the BNA I don't ready anything relating to Rights for the citizens.
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basically whatever was good for england was good for us so you could look up the british version and i think that would sit well.

however one of the fundementle differences between the u.s. and canada and england is that with the u.s. it is the rights of the individual above all else. whereas with canada and england the rights of the individual are sometimes sacrificed for the greater good of all society. supposedly anyway.

that might be why you are having a hard time finding rights pertaining to the individual.
 
HankQuinlan

HankQuinlan

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Sep 7, 2002
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luckydog71 said:
Actually, I see this as the DEMS acknowledging the Bush campaign against the terrorists is working.

All of the DEMS (except 1) voted for the patriot act the last time.

The patriot act has not changed this time around.

Therefore there must be a reason why the DEMS have voted differently this time than last.

- The most obvious one is the terrorists threat is less now and the patriot act is no longer needed. I disagree with that position, but it is one explanation why they changed.

I guess the second most obvious reason is this is completely political. The DEMS want to use this as a campaign issue. They would all be in Kerry’s camp. They voted for the patriot act before they voted against it. For once the DEMS would be in agreement.
Click to expand...
A third explanation is that they finally realized they should stop being such spineless wimps and start doing the right thing. I suspect, however, that they are only reacting to the polls right now, just the way they were when they were completely chickshit and supported it the last time.

I think that your citizens are finally waking up --- it's public opinion that is guiding the spineless politicians.
 
luckydog71

luckydog71

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HankQuinlan said:
A third explanation is that they finally realized they should stop being such spineless wimps and start doing the right thing. I suspect, however, that they are only reacting to the polls right now, just the way they were when they were completely chickshit and supported it the last time.

I think that your citizens are finally waking up --- it's public opinion that is guiding the spineless politicians.
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Hank, I agree with you that our politicians are more interested in what the polls say than doing what is right.

When this act was first passed there was a lot of support from the public and now there is not. Hell we could have the federal government run through plebiscites and the internet. We would not need politicians.

Having Americans wake up is one thing. Having them do something about it is another. We make decisions based on emotion not logic. That is why after 9/11 most Americans were ready to attack anything that moved. Four years later, the emotion is gone for most and the support for the Patriot Act is dwindled.

The Iraqi voters have put us to shame. 70% of eligible votes went to the polls. We will be lucky to get 45% next November.
 
D

dittman

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if a person or group of people mwant to kill other people it doesnt matter what country your in it can be done. the object is to make it as difficult as possible. In this country our politicians motto is we will make it as easy as possible. its all about politics, and when the next one comes the blame game starts all over again
 
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