How did you vote - Re: HST/ PST
- Thread starter FunSugarDaddy
- Start date
I am not a business owner. I voted to keep it because it makes the most economic sense for the short, medium & long term development of BC.
Makes zero economic sense to eliminate it. The cost savings in the long run are in the multi multi millions. I am a small business owner BTW
I was pro HST from the very beginning, but had it not been implemented, would have been fine with it. But the cost to eliminate it at this time, far outweighs any benefit the YES side touts. There is NO benefit to eliminating it now
If you vote with your head, then you will vote NO. If you vote with your heart, because you feel betrayed ot hate Campbell, or taxes or whatever, then you will vote YES and regret it.
JMHO
D
I was pro HST from the very beginning, but had it not been implemented, would have been fine with it. But the cost to eliminate it at this time, far outweighs any benefit the YES side touts. There is NO benefit to eliminating it now
If you vote with your head, then you will vote NO. If you vote with your heart, because you feel betrayed ot hate Campbell, or taxes or whatever, then you will vote YES and regret it.
JMHO
D
I am voting to keep the HST and I am not a small business owner. I am not happy the way the HST was brought in through the back door but I also believe voting the HST out is a very short sighted thing to do and will cost the taxpayers of BC more in the long run.
It's is very easy to disagree with something but much more difficult to actually come up with a rational arguement or a solution.....
There are many valid economic reasons for eliminating the HST.
However, even putting aside these arguments, I also do put a lot of value in standing your ground against a dishonest government purely on principle alone. For that alone - despite the other arguments that taxes are being allocated from business owners to the consumer - is enough for me to vote to extinguish the tax.
And yes - I believe there is a time and place to spank one's child as well.
I think everyone should spend time here http://www.hstinbc.ca/ and then come back to me with your valid economic reasons for eliminating the HST, especailly when it gets rolled back to 10%. Ignore the hype and your emotions, do the research and then make an informed decision. If you still vote yes, it is because of the facts and not because you feel betrayed. Too much emotion for my liking is driving this debate.
I do not like the way it was brought in and think Campbell is a lying POS, but to stand on your principles knowing that in the long run it is going to cost millions and millions, just makes no sense to me.
JMHO
D
There are NO valid economic reasons for choosing the PST over the HST. There are however personal and political reasons to prefer the PST, which is what you are talking about.
One thing a lot of people are not talking about is the real nature of our economy. There was a time where B.C. was basically a natural resource province. Mine the coal, cut the trees, fish the salmon, tax the companies doing it. That was a mainstay of the PST, along with consumers paying for goods, and with so many ludicrous exceptions and complexities it would make the most ardent policy makers blush. It was a masterwork of beuracracy and special interests. Yes, I used to have to file PST returns and GST returns, and what a fucked up overly complicated shake your head bang a brick wall chunk of red tape that was trying to keep two separete tax rules straight. So now we have laid off miners, suffering forestry workers, non-profitable fishers, yet a thriving service industry. And guess what? Who are the big buyers of services? Businesses. That's right, businesses by services by the truckload. When was the last time you spent $2.4 million anually on services? Why do you think economists support the HST? It ain't because they love the government. No way. But they do show the integrity to recognize a simple tax with low transaction costs that better reflects our current economy is a progressive economic move. No government in their right mind would bring in a PST. If the No vote wins, we will have the best and lowest tax for people in Canada, with the exception of Alberta. So we can move forward even if we hate the government (when was the last time you loved your goverment? Wanna buy a fast ferry?), or we can move on with reality and a balanced economy of service and resource sectors contributing to the social programs we care about. If the yes vote wins, life will go on, but we will remain with a paralyzing fucked up tax system hoping that once again we can tax the trees, fish, and minerals to fund healthcare and education. I am hoping straightening out the HST is just the start, and straightening the healthcare and educations systems comes next. It pains me to see such good people working in such wasteful organizations.
So what about the biggest lie of all? That the HST will kill the province. People will stop going out to pubs and restaurants. Small service providers will shut down. Well, take a look. Sure creature comforts are a little more expensive, but the sky did not fall, as the opposition said it would. In fact restaurants are booming and we have a tax surplus, proving the HST can and should be reduced, now that the pessimiests were proven wrong. They lied to us about the effects of the HST. It is time to move forward. I am going out to buy beer and natchos, and gladly pay the HST on them.
So what about the biggest lie of all? That the HST will kill the province. People will stop going out to pubs and restaurants. Small service providers will shut down. Well, take a look. Sure creature comforts are a little more expensive, but the sky did not fall, as the opposition said it would. In fact restaurants are booming and we have a tax surplus, proving the HST can and should be reduced, now that the pessimiests were proven wrong. They lied to us about the effects of the HST. It is time to move forward. I am going out to buy beer and natchos, and gladly pay the HST on them.
Actually with the HST things are considerably more expensive.
Gov't hired pr firms and economists have done a snow job on the average person - and judging by these boards - most of you have bought into it.
Buying a house is now considerably more expensive.
There is a host of new items that are now taxed under the HST.
The gov't says the difference of the HST is on average to the consumer $240.00 per year. The gov't never tried to sell us the "benefits" before they introduced the tax - becuase they knew if people took a close look at it, they'd not support it.
Now that they've rammed it in, their doing a huge spin job to get everyone on board.
Sorry $240.00 is not worth giving up my principles.
Anytime a government says a new tax is good for us, its time to beware.
After watching the news a couple of weeks ago, about the modernization of Alcan in Kitimat, the CEO was all giddy about not having to pay any taxes on the equipment. But then we were told this modernization will require less workers. So another lye about the HST creating jobs.
Lets face it, any big businesses first obligation is to maximize its profits for its shareholders. So any extra money will go into their pockets, not price reductions and certianly not more jobs.
I think I understand why small businesses like it, since they don't have to pay tax on goods. But with such small profit margins compared to big business, I can't see any savings passed on to the consumer.
After watching the news a couple of weeks ago, about the modernization of Alcan in Kitimat, the CEO was all giddy about not having to pay any taxes on the equipment. But then we were told this modernization will require less workers. So another lye about the HST creating jobs.
Lets face it, any big businesses first obligation is to maximize its profits for its shareholders. So any extra money will go into their pockets, not price reductions and certianly not more jobs.
I think I understand why small businesses like it, since they don't have to pay tax on goods. But with such small profit margins compared to big business, I can't see any savings passed on to the consumer.
Prove it. Prove that buying a new home is "Considerably" more expensive under the HST system, because here are the facts
A 1 million dollar home cost
HST $1,111,750
PST $1,089,400
A difference of 2.05% Considerable????
You are reading and listening to the spin from both sides. You have skimmed over it and not read the facts and your housing example is without merit.
* Note: new home price (before GST/HST and PST) is higher under the PST system than the HST system because it includes invisible PST.
New housing was not directly subject to PST - the purchaser of a newly built home did not pay PST on the purchase price. However, builders had to pay PST on most construction materials (e.g. wood, cement, plaster, nails, etc.) used to build a home. The PST was part of the cost of building the home and was included, or “embedded”, in the total selling price of the home.
It is estimated based on Statistics Canada data that, under the previous PST system, the invisible PST in new homes in B.C. was, on average, equal to about 2 per cent of the price. The amount of PST invisible on a specific new home will vary (i.e. may be more or less than 2 per cent).
Unlike with the PST, under the HST there is no sales tax embedded in the price of new homes because builders, like most other businesses, can recover the HST they pay on their materials and other business inputs through input tax credits (subject to the temporary ITC restriction for large businesses).
Market forces will impact the extent to which both the savings from the removal of invisible PST and the cost of the HST are passed to consumers or absorbed by builders, and will ultimately determine home prices.
I get it, you hate taxes and hate the Liberals for introducing the HST and you are going to show them by voting yes and throwing BILLIONS away????
JMHO
D
You're dreaming if you think contractors and builders will pass all those savings onto the consumer.
House prices in BC are high and getting higher, the HST savings will go into the pockets of each trade involved and the builders. The HST is also impacting realtors.
"Throwing billions away" is part of the ridiculous spin. Listening to the pro HST side you'd think we were still living in log cabins because there was no investment or interest in investing in BC.
I guess Jim Pattison didn't get the memo it's not worth investing without an HST.
House prices in BC are high and getting higher, the HST savings will go into the pockets of each trade involved and the builders. The HST is also impacting realtors.
"Throwing billions away" is part of the ridiculous spin. Listening to the pro HST side you'd think we were still living in log cabins because there was no investment or interest in investing in BC.
I guess Jim Pattison didn't get the memo it's not worth investing without an HST.
I work in construction for a general contractor. Each and every single subcontractor has held onto that differential (these supposed savings) tooth and claw. There's no fucking way the end consumer ever sees that savings.
Voted to keep it, I did all the reading and think it makes economic sense, BTW no one asked how we felt about the cost of the HST referendum...spending money on it was such a waste!
Has anyone bothered to do the math on what the current Liberal government is doing?
For everyone who says, "I'm voting for the HST because 10% is less than the old system"... guess what?
They have blown a massive hole in the budget with cheques sent out to buy votes - $500 million.
1% drop in HST - $1 billion.
Second 1% drop - another $1 billion.
If you HST supporters think voting to keep it is going to be painless - just wait. They are going to have to get back that money somehow/some way. Get ready to bend over and this time - no lube.
For everyone who says, "I'm voting for the HST because 10% is less than the old system"... guess what?
They have blown a massive hole in the budget with cheques sent out to buy votes - $500 million.
1% drop in HST - $1 billion.
Second 1% drop - another $1 billion.
If you HST supporters think voting to keep it is going to be painless - just wait. They are going to have to get back that money somehow/some way. Get ready to bend over and this time - no lube.
I'm not sure if its good or bad for the over all economy. I haven't paid enough attention. I do know, however, that it has really hurt my mothers small business. She owns a little hippie metaphysical type book store. I do know she has struggled much harder with this current tax system, then she did with the last one.
This is surprising considering that books and most merchandise are taxed at the same rate under the HST as they were under the PST/GST, which is 12%, so the HST shouldn't have affected her sales. Furthermore she is now able to claim a tax credit for HST she has paid on expenses like telephone, utilities, supplies, furniture and equipment, whereas previously these items would have included PST at 7% that was not recoverable to her. Not only that but she now no longer has to track two separate sales taxes and no longer has to file monthly PST returns. So unless there is more information of which I am not aware, your mother's business is a prime example of how many small businesses are better off under the HST. Of course it is possible that she has experienced a downturn in her business that just happened to coincide with the introduction of the HST but it would be a stretch to show that the HST is the cause.
Some people just don't get it.
This is the infuriating thing about trying to show people how bad this tax can be.
My business is the same - CLIENTS HAVE LESS MONEY TO SPEND!! That's why my business, and probably the book shop's, and many others are suffering. But of course, to ardent HST supporters that's just coincidental.
But I do concede that there are no limits or checks on HST credits, so most businesses will just pad them and claim extra credits. That, combined with the huge increase to the underground economy will be great for everyone.
