Housing prices dropping to 1996 levels

sdw

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craiglist-lover said:
This is interesting and I certainly agree with your bottom line, but there is at least once assumption being used, which this that someone has a variable, rather than a fixed mortgage. These mortgage holders, at least in Canada are in the minority. (my guess would be 25% or so of which 10% of these could buy there way out regardless of where interest rates went because they either have small mortgages or other assets),

Secondly the mortgage rates are slightly wrong, most people have variable mortgages which are prime - .75%, which currently is about 5.25 but was as low as 3.75 about 18 months ago. Yes, I have one.

I used the example because the Bank of Nova Scotia and others are pushing these 1 yr interest only mortgages, I'm lazy and PERB won't let you post a post that would cover all the available options of mortgage vehicals out there. The example serves to demonstrate the concept and the actual difference in monthly payment is only on the order of 50 to 200 no matter how much shopping you do.
 

David in Van

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dirtydan said:
So you want to go forwards while going backwards. :D

Capitalism is not poorly understood in the manner you suggest. It is poorly understood because too many people forget or do not realize that greed for money and being controlled by money are the REAL foundations of capitalism. ;)

I gave up on capitalism a long time ago and see that a mixed system is the best way to go, at least for now. We are a long, long, way off from seeing a socialist system the way it was meant to be. I seriously doubt I will ever see in my life time and probably for a good long time after I'm dead. Nevertheless as terrific as capitalism has been in generating wealth (always for a few) it does contain the means for its own destruction. And like every system prior to that it is inevitable capitalism will be destroyed. :cool:
It would have been easier just to say that you are a Marxist.
 

dirtydan

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David in Van said:
It would have been easier just to say that you are a Marxist.

Far from it. I'm more like something between a social democrat and a democratic socialist. ;)
 

David in Van

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dirtydan said:
Far from it. I'm more like something between a social democrat and a democratic socialist. ;)
OK, you are not a Marxist. However, Marx is the only one that seriously proposed (and obtained a large following) that Capitalism must inevitably die.
 

xUxJr311fr3P

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New home prices continue to soar

New home prices continue to soar

By Ottawa Business Journal Staff
Wed, Oct 11, 2006 11:00 AM EST

Rapidly-rising home prices in Alberta continue to drive the annual increase in new home prices in to the double digits.

Statistics Canada says the average price of a new home rose 1.5 per cent in August, eclipsing the 1.1-per-cent gain in July. Compared to a year ago, new home prices are up 12.1 per cent.

Calgary and Edmonton continue to dominate the new home statistics. In Calgary, a new home today costs 60.6 per cent more than a year ago. In Edmonton, new home prices have jumped 37.8 per cent in the past 12 months.

Edmonton posted the largest monthly increase in August, at 6.8 per cent, followed by Calgary at 3.5 per cent.

Increased costs for construction materials, steeper trade labour rates and higher land prices all combined with strong demand to push up the prices of new homes.

In Ottawa, the price of a new home rose 0.5 per cent in August, and is up 3.4per cent from a year ago.
 

DDawGG

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Some interesting predictions out of CIBC

A very interesting Monthly Indicators report from CIBC World Markets this month. For two reasons, one the Mortgage strategy of providing a 12 month teaser period for consumers at a heavily discounted rate with the option to convert into potentially lower fixed "Floor" rates in 12 months continues to be a very viable strategy. Secondly, Benjamin Tal wrote a very interesting article on "Exotic Mortgages" and the fact that US $2 Trillion will have rate resets in the coming 24 months……the largest reset in US history.

First off, the forecast over the next 12 months is for Prime to go down 100 bps over the next 12 months and for long term bond yields to decrease by 60 bps.

If a customer takes a Standard ARM and closes in December 2006, the Floor rate is P-1.20 for 12 months. If I follow CIBC World Market predictions the average rate the customer would pay over that 12 months is 4.20% (starting at 4.70% and dropping to 3.70%). If they lock into a 5 year fixed at the end of the teaser and the forecasting holds true, they should obtain a Floor Rate of about 4.69% (60 bps lower than today's Floor Rate) in Dec 2007. Therefore the average rate over 6 years would be 4.60%.....not bad for 6 years if the forecasting holds true.

The reason Prime forecasting has been increased to a drop of 100 bps is the fact that the slowing of the US economy and all the forecasting of a slow down south of the border has not impacted the Canadian dollar as much as it usually does. This is because the US economy used to routinely account for 30% of global GDP growth and now it only accounts for half that much. Far less then that, when it comes to global demand of most commodities, so the US no longer has as much of an impact on the global economy as it once did. The combination of a high exchange rate and a retrenching US consumer, has the potential to turn a mid-cycle slowdown in the US economy into something a lot uglier in Canada and particularly in Ontario, which has North America's largest auto production. If commodity prices don't fall steeply, it will take the Bank of Canada interest rate settings to bring the Canadian dollar down to a favorable level to combat the economic downturn ahead.

How Painful Will Mortgage Rate Resets Be?

The upcoming mortgage rate reset in the US mortgage market will see $2 Trillion of mortgage debt being adjusted upward. The Fed funds rate has risen 425 bps and American households mortgage rates are up only 30 bps on average. This is because a majority of ARMs were given teasers and not 3 or 12 months like here in Canada, but two or even three years. For most of these loans, the teaser period is now ending and it's "payback time". This is a credit quality issue because the recent surge in ARM activity concentrated on high risk borrowers and exotic mortgages such as Interest Only and Negative Amortization Option ARMs. Many of these high risk borrowers had little or no equity to begin with and may have a modest price correction to deal with on top. The mortgage delinquency rate is already on the rise in the US.

The US financial sector is heavily exposed to the real estate market, with home loans and mortgages representing 40% of total loans and leases. The most significant impact may be felt in the MBS Market where non-agency (private) issuance has been rising much faster than MBS issuance from agencies like Fannie Mae. Non-agency issuance has doubled to more than US$1 Trillion in just the past few years and its percentage in the MBS Market has risen from 25% in 2000 to more than half today. The strong increase in private issuance coincided with the sub prime boom. Current non-agency/agency MBS spreads have not yet reflected in the credit quality of non-agencies, but the prediction is that this will change soon.
 

jjinvan

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There are several factors hurting the US market that won't happen in Canada.

The war in IRAQ and being a net importer of oil and energy products are two of them.

High oil and energy prices actually make our average new home price go up and theirs go down.

They have a significant portion of their population in the military, reserves or national guard and those guys aren't about to be investing in a house right now.

Their mortgage interest rates are a LOT higher than ours right now, too.

And, our dollar is doing pretty well while theirs is not.

I'm not saying I have any clue what our housing market is going to do, but many of the things moving the US market down don't apply to us.

One thing that probably applies to both them and us is the aging boomers deciding to sell their large homes and move into smaller retirement condos etc...
 

sdw

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jjinvan said:
There are several factors hurting the US market that won't happen in Canada.

The war in IRAQ and being a net importer of oil and energy products are two of them.

High oil and energy prices actually make our average new home price go up and theirs go down.

They have a significant portion of their population in the military, reserves or national guard and those guys aren't about to be investing in a house right now.

Their mortgage interest rates are a LOT higher than ours right now, too.

And, our dollar is doing pretty well while theirs is not.

I'm not saying I have any clue what our housing market is going to do, but many of the things moving the US market down don't apply to us.

One thing that probably applies to both them and us is the aging boomers deciding to sell their large homes and move into smaller retirement condos etc...
We have higher heating and cooling costs than the Americans and we don't have as efficient a delivery system because we are underpopulated in relation to our size. We will always pay more for energy, communications and transportation than the Americans.

The Americans can deduct their mortgage interest, we can't.

Our dollar is higher because the Americans are printing money to fund their war and everyone knows it. However, the Americans are 80% of the Canadian economy. That's why there is always a lag between an action in the American economy and a reaction in the Canadian economy.
 

Webster

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dirtydan said:
Nevertheless as terrific as capitalism has been in generating wealth (always for a few) it does contain the means for its own destruction. And like every system prior to that it is inevitable capitalism will be destroyed.
No way. It'll just be watered down until the point where there's a large contented middle class again.
 

john23

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Another factor that affects the Canadian housing market differently than the US housing market is the fact that the Bush administration has made a concerted effort to limit immigration to the US. This is mainly based on the belief that new immigrants tend to vote democrat.

In Canada, however, imigration quotas have been increased by a factor of 1.5 (if I recall correctly) from last year. I think the rationale is that the federal government wants to increase the tax base such that they can realistically support all the retiring baby boomers. From what I understand new immigrants tend to settle in the Lower Mainland or GTA (Toronto). So I think for the forseeable future its going to be a very tight housing market here.

Also, in Vancouver at least, much of the housing on the market seems to be going to offshore buyers. That's more of a subjective observation and would only apply to specific market segments (eg high end condos) so it may not be entirely valid.
 
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