German law pushes unemployed women into legalized sex trade

Bull

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German law pushes unemployed women into legalized sex trade
Clare Chapman
The Sunday Telegraph
Sunday, January 30, 2005

BERLIN -- A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services" at a brothel in Berlin faces cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.

Prostitution was legalized in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners -- who must pay tax and employee health insurance -- were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.

The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe. She received a letter from the job centre telling her an employer was interested in her "profile" and she should contact them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realize that she was calling a brothel.

Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job -- including in the sex industry -- or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990.

The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law.

"There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," said Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specializes in such cases.

"The new regulations say working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."

Garweg said women who had worked in call centres had been offered jobs on telephone sex lines. At one job centre in the city of Gotha, a 23-year-old woman was told that she had to attend an interview as a "nude model," and should report back on the meeting.Tatiana Ulyanova, who owns a brothel in central Berlin, has been searching the online database of her local job centre for recruits.

"Why shouldn't I look for employees through the job centre when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" said Ulyanova.

Garweg believes pressure on job centres to meet employment targets will soon result in them using their powers to cut the benefits of women who refuse jobs providing sexual services.

"They are already prepared to push women into jobs related to sexual services, but which don't count as prostitution," she said.

"Now that prostitution is no longer considered by the law to be immoral, there is really nothing but the goodwill of the job centres to stop them from pushing women into jobs they don't want to do."
 

Bull

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Somehow this just doesn't seem right. Nobody should be forced into the sex trade.

How would you enjoy a session with an SP who didn't want to be there?
 

Lady Companion

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Does anybody have a link to the actual article here? Any other legitimate links will work also. I am wanting to reference this for a paper, so no 'Enquirer' type sites please :)
 

BC visitor

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From a bureaucratic view, I guess I understand the logic. Can't say I agree with it.

It is interesting, as I think people should have the right to choose the sex industry and not have it chosen for them. In Canada, certain forms of the sex industry are legal, but carry a moral repugnancy that forces many SPs to live an underground live. But yet here, the societal moral objections have been removed and the individuals values get trampled.

It is a strange world we live in. Good thing it is Germany, they get what, 16 weeks of vacation a year?
 

BlueBells

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Gawd that is awful!!! Theres a word to describe people who force women to sell themselves and that is pimp. Escorting is exactly right for some and very wrong for others and only the individual in question can decide for themself. This is an industry that balances on the edge of morality, and all too often the balance tips, for example this when women are punished for refusing, or a gov't who turns a blind eye to child prostitution, slavery etc... Perhaps I'm painting with a broad brush ... but prostitution world-wide needs to be made victim-free.
 

Bull

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Lady Companion said:
Does anybody have a link to the actual article here? Any other legitimate links will work also. I am wanting to reference this for a paper, so no 'Enquirer' type sites please :)
I got the story from here.
 

wolverine

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Unemployment must be bad in Germany if even IT professionals can't get jobs there. On the bright side, that first girl can always get a side job writing the brothel's website! :)
 

rollerboy

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2 Birds, 1 Stone - German Welfare/Pimp System

I read, I think in the WSG, that Turkey has a penal system :) where female criminals can be sentence to forced (sex) labor in state operated brothels.

Now, perhaps the German system might be a little more reasonable than it first sounds. After all, they aren't threatening to imprison the girl, or fine her. All they are saying is that they are going to cut her unemployment benefits because she has a valid job opportunity, she just chooses not to take it. That's her right, but why should the government pay for her to do nothing?
 

Bull

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Sep 22, 2004
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So economic coercion/blackmail is OK?

Your point could hold water, rollerboy, if the job being offered to the woman in question was within her expertise or training. For example, another IT job. Why should she be coerced into the sex trade if she has no inclination or desire to go there? Could she similarly be forced to work as a dental assistant or operating room nurse if she had no training, qualifications or aptitude for those jobs?
 

Massagegirl

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Brothels need bartenders, hostesses, maids, phone staff, web designers and managers so maybe the job would be working for a brothel not in the brothel and it got lost in translation? That is the only explanation I can think of. They could/would never expect married, handicapped, too young, too old or too fat women to ever find work in the sex trade so I can't see them compelling it! It's impossible.
 

rollerboy

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Bull said:
So economic coercion/blackmail is OK?

Your point could hold water, rollerboy, if the job being offered to the woman in question was within her expertise or training. For example, another IT job. Why should she be coerced into the sex trade if she has no inclination or desire to go there? Could she similarly be forced to work as a dental assistant or operating room nurse if she had no training, qualifications or aptitude for those jobs?
Obviously, the person has to be qualified for the job. I have no familiarity with the German unemployment system, and it does seem odd that she was disqualified for turning down a job outside her field.

But we don't know all the facts. The fact that she took a waitressing job, probably played a role, I suspect, and the fact that she interviewed at the brothel. If an employer were willing to provide training as a dental assistant, and a sufficiently long time had passed where the person had been unable to get another IT position, then yes, I think that turning that down should result in some kind of benefits reduction. Beggars can't be choosers.
 

Maury Beniowski

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Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Come on now Gentlemen, you're making it sound like the sex trade is a bad thing. There are a lot of facets to this business that are not entirely savoury. Some ladies are perfectly happy to be in this business, some are not. You may even have bought sex from a lady who was "forced" into this business because her back was against the wall, the kids were crying and hungry, the rent was due, and the credit cards were maxxed to the limit with no relief in sight. She might have even "seemed" like she was enjoying you, but you didn't much care at the time, you were paying her weren't you?

So Germany is doing something "out in the open" that most developed nations condone anyway. And who are these governments we pooh-pooh, and who put them there?

I think Perb's been struck with the Holier-Than-Thou virus that's making the rounds. There's a flip side to everything, and our trusted but often twisted Media spoon feeds us these self-serving agendas; we just have to remember to sneak around the glass wall now and again, especially when these right wing media whores reveal these "shocking" stories to us.

The best cure: Listen to George Carlin once in a while...
 
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BC visitor

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First let me state I find this situation very wrong, and I agree with other posters who say entering the sex industry is a very personal decision. This decision in Germany is reducing human beings to nothing more than units of economic production, and that is simply wrong. But to stir the pot a little I thought I would post this.

The article states Germany's unemployment is at the highest level since reunification. I think all the countries in the Euro zone have strict guidelines of unemployment, interest rates, etc so the Euro's value is the same through out the euro zone. Germany must do something, and these are jobs.

I think most countries with welfare systems have a mechanism to keep people looking for work and if they choose not to work, they eventually loose the benefit.

I guess the question is what qualifies someone to be a prostitute? Is there a job certification process? I would think to be a dental assistant you need training & certification. If in Germany the only requirement to be a prostitute is a health check, well, from a bureaucratic, governmental view, it is unskilled labor and anyone can do it. Remember, the job exists in the private sector, and a businessman wants someone to fill the need.

I know in the US prisoners in the city & county lock ups (Not convicts, mind you) have to do work detail for the municipalities. They often do really sh!tty tasks to include doing cleanup for the coronor's office (physically picking up dead people, cleaning up the "mess" dead people leave behind). I'm sure these people would choose other things to do also, remember, they are not convicted of anything yet.

Again please don't flame me for this, it's not my view, but I can see how the garden path is laid out so to speak. I would think of all countries in the world to value individual human dignity, it would be Germany.
 

rollerboy

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westwoody said:
rollerboy said:
I read, I think in the WSG, that Turkey has a penal system :) where female criminals can be sentence to forced (sex) [/QUOTE

If you think forced sex rates a smiley face, you need to spend some time in the slammer.
The smiley was for the stupid pun. Lighten up!
 

rollerboy

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silkrose said:
Thank God women here don't have to accept work that is significantly beneath them when they're on unemployment benefits, much less morally degrading to them. Sex trade work should never be forced on anyone regardless of the political or economic circumstances of a country.

With IT experience and training, she might qualify for immigration to Canada, possibly on the grounds that she's being persecuted in her own country now...and I personally wouldn't begrudge her that.
Wasn't there a big fuss about Canadian immigration visas being granted to exotic dancers, essentially "turning them out"? The terms of the visa was that they work in the adult entertainment industry, where many were not previously employed as sex workers. If it can happen in German, it can happen here.
 

Maury Beniowski

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We Canadians are masters at applying a double standard when it comes to morality.

Prostitution is a legal and strictly regulated form of employment in Germany, as it should be, whereas in Canada, it is legal, but not strictly regulated. Ironically, our government taxes the earnings derived from it, but fails to legislate any protections for women involved in this economic activity. They fail miserably because they are horrified of any backlash from right wing or religious organizations that could loosen their fragile grip on power.

On the other hand however, Germany is more pragmatic in its assessment of prostitution, and avoids pigeon-hole'ing it, keeping the State and the Church separate as they should be in all matters. It only becomes a political, "no, a media issue", when their labour laws are applied "without prejudice" as they have in this case.

By selectively applying our narrow moral standards to this argument, we stigmatize the very women we are trying to liberate.
 

rollerboy

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Maury Beniowski said:
By selectively applying our narrow moral standards to this argument, we stigmatize the very women we are trying to liberate.
Well said, Maury. Even us Perbs seem to think that prostitution is some form of torture, a fate worse than death.
 

Bull

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Maury, its not a matter of stigmatizing anybody, or applying our narrow moral standards, or painting scarlett letters on prostitutes. The point is that the Germans should not be coercing someone into an occupation that they, for personal reasons, may not be comfortable with. That is far from applying a stigma to the occupation itself. Assuming you are not gay, would you be comfortable being forced to work in a gay brothel simply because some employer needs an extra hand?
 
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