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And another sad election coming, probably May 2

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
1,744
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victoria
That's interesting; because in this article, he talks about being "here to win on the 2nd of May". Care to share your source?
Al has a habit of not being able to back up some of his assertions about events that occurred during this campaign. I too could not come up with any evidence of such an admission, and I am pretty sure that this would be newsworthy if it had occurred on a televised interview. Perhaps the Liberal-biased media has put a lockdown on this?
 

gotsome2004

Bun wrapped wiener
Oct 15, 2004
453
0
0
Montreal
It's going to be an NDP sweep in Quebec!
 

Bartdude

New member
Jul 5, 2006
1,252
5
0
Calgary
David Frum: Liberals caught in the revenge of the margins
Apr 30, 2011 – 8:45 AM ET

Polls are sometimes wrong. Voters sometimes — often, actually — change their minds during the final weekend of a campaign. That said: Canada looks headed for a startling election outcome on May 2:

1) An expanded Conservative government, falling short of a majority;
2) An NDP opposition, based in Quebec;
3) A deflated BQ;
4) And a Liberal party consigned to third place in the House of Commons.

What happened? What will it mean? Some early guesses:

First, don’t blame Michael Ignatieff too much. The Liberals lost their predominance in Quebec in 1984. They finished second in Quebec again in 1988, again in 1993, again in 1997, again in 2000, again in 2004, again in 2006, again in 2008. See a pattern?

They finished second under the Anglophone John Turner, under the Francophones Jean Chrétien and Stéphane Dion, and under the bicultural Paul Martin. If under Michael Ignatieff they drop from second place in Quebec to third, that looks a lot more like the continuation of a pattern than an individual catastrophe.

Second, don’t credit Jack Layton too much. The NDP did not earn its Quebec surge. It did not recruit good candidates, it did not build an infrastructure in the province. Layton is the beneficiary of political change, not its author.

The NDP is campaigning on a promise of regional redistribution: higher taxes on energy in order to finance more social welfare and more subsidies to favored industries. No surprise that promise appeals to Quebec!

If you want to credit anything, credit a mega-trend in the Canadian economy. Canada used to be a big Michigan: a manufacturing economy with some resource industries attached. Suddenly Canada finds itself a big Norway: an energy economy with some services and manufacturing attached.

The Canadian dollar has surged, bestowing a higher standard of living on Canadians who can benefit from the energy sector. However, that high dollar also has carved a big question mark over the future of manufacturing Canada — not only the auto belt of southern Ontario, but also the aviation and pharmaceutical industries of Quebec.

How does Bombardier now compete with Embraer? How long can Pfizer and Bristol-Myers and Squibb refrain from moving their pill production to India?

This change in the Canadian economy is shaking Canadian politics. Those regions that feel they are losing ground want more help from government than the Liberals will give. Those regions that are gaining ground want less government intervention than the Liberals can accept.

The old Liberal game — campaign left, govern right — no longer works. The prospering parts of Canada no longer trust Liberal governance. The distressed parts of Canada are no longer satisfied with Liberal campaigning. The Liberals used to hold the centre, both geographic and ideological, and squeeze the margins. Now the margins are having their revenge: It is the centre that is being squeezed.

The Liberals are unlikely to lose as badly in 2011 as the old Progressive Conservatives lost in 1993. But they may be facing the same kind of identity crisis. They will have to find a new leader, a new strategy and a new message. Discovering those new formulas will take time.

Which raises a fascinating question about what happens on the day after the election.

Imagine that the voting produces the following plausible result: Conservatives 150, NDP 80, Libs 50, Bloc 28. (This is not a prediction, just a hypothesis.) What happens then? Will the Liberals join with the NDP to bring down the Conservatives and install a government in which the Liberals are junior partners to the NDP? Who would be the acting Liberal leader and Deputy Prime Minister? The damaged Michael Ignatieff? Bob Rae? That would create a government led by an NDP prime minister and a former NDP premier — suicide for the Liberal brand and the Liberal future.

The Liberal back bench will have to prefer a Conservative government supported by Liberal votes to a subordinated Liberal role in an NDP government. Especially since that Liberal-NDP government will also need the consent of the Bloc: again suicide for the Liberal brand and the Liberal future.

So this NDP surge may actually succeed in producing a third Conservative minority, but one that is actually even stronger and more stable than the Conservative minority of 2008-2011.

If so, that wouldn’t be the best possible government for Canada. But it would be a decent runner-up.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...iberals-caught-in-the-revenge-of-the-margins/
 

aznboi9

Don't mind me...
May 3, 2005
1,380
3
38
Here Be Monsters
Al has a habit of not being able to back up some of his assertions about events that occurred during this campaign. I too could not come up with any evidence of such an admission, and I am pretty sure that this would be newsworthy if it had occurred on a televised interview. Perhaps the Liberal-biased media has put a lockdown on this?
Perhaps ;)
 

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
1,744
6
0
victoria
Probably my last work on seat prediction for this election:
Conservative - 161 seats
NDP - 110 seats
Liberal - 32 seats
Bloc - 3 seats
Independent - 1 seat - - - he's in Quebec, he's a long term MP and will win again.
Green - 1 - - - Elizabeth May
Well, Al -- It's looking like you will win your office pool. Maybe you should be looking to work for one of those polling companies that need a lot of help.

It is not ending up very much like my guess, but I am happy in a kind of vindictive nasty way to see the humiliation of two of the parties.
 

bcneil

I am from BC
Aug 24, 2007
2,095
0
36
Holy shit Al!
 

HankQuinlan

I dont re Member
Sep 7, 2002
1,744
6
0
victoria
Well, it certainly was nothing I predicted more than a month ago. I hate the result, but there are good things:

- Maybe Layton can rise to the occasion, educate some of the smart young ones, isolate the nutty ones (cough, Libby Davies), provide good opposition pointing out the abuses as they occur, and come up with a decent slate and platform --- hey, he's got four years.

- Having it found out that he liked(s) getting his willy whacked didn't seem to matter to people, and may make those using those tactics get better ammunition next time.

- Elizabeth May gets a platform, and put down a Con cabinet minister (although not one of the worst ones)

- The Liberals get a good long time to think about who they are, or else join with the NDP in a proper center-left party.

- Harper is not going to destroy my country in four years. If he goes too far in anything, there will be a huge backlash.

And I still hate the system -- a party with only 40% of the votes should never get 100% of the power.
 

Devo

Member
Aug 16, 2003
316
0
16
Canada
Although I am ecstatic about the Conservative majority, I am very disappointed that the NDP picked up so many seats. I would take the Liberal party over the NDP in a heartbeat. Fortunately the NDP gains are a fluke and the Liberals will win back these seats next election. Thank God the NDP has no real power and no chance of ever being the majority.
 

ThisEndUp

mort à l'entente
Although I am ecstatic about the Conservative majority, I am very disappointed that the NDP picked up so many seats. I would take the Liberal party over the NDP in a heartbeat. Fortunately the NDP gains are a fluke and the Liberals will win back these seats next election. Thank God the NDP has no real power and no chance of ever being the majority.
agreed, except the Bloc will recapture those seats not the Liberals, and with Rae in power after Iggy, no chance until Justin is crowned...
 

Bartdude

New member
Jul 5, 2006
1,252
5
0
Calgary
About 60% voter turnout - a perfect storm for the conservatives. Make no mistake - this was not an election result brought about by waves of "desire for change" - but rather by a potent mixture of apathy, negativity, and detachment.

Regardless, a monumental feat for Jack Layton - who in all fairness is easily the nicest, most genuine of the leaders. I fear his 100 seats however will mean squat to a majority government whose ideology is polar opposite to his, and who affords him even less respect than they do the liberals. With half his caucus from Quebec, he can look forward to being largely ignored and swept aside for four years. Harper has a tight grip on Ontario, B.C., and the West now - he couldn't care less about La Belle Province. And when English Canada gets more seats, he will relegate "the frogs" as Reformers like to call them, to permanent second-class status.

Reboot and rebuild time for the Liberal Party - will be interesting to see which tack they take in pursuing their reinvention.

Glad to see the Bloc marginalized - although a PQ provincial government is still a possibility. Also - once Quebecers realize Jack can't deliver what they want - look out. Quebec giveth, and Quebec taketh away. The liberals and conservatives have both learned that the hard way in previous elections.

I really don't like Stephen Harper gaining the big prize through his dishonest, underhanded, and undemocratic methods. We'll have to wait and see if he can resist the unfettered levers of near-absolute power.

What's ironic is that Layton doubled his seat count - and has far less power now than he did. Gotta love parliamentary democracy.
 

Devo

Member
Aug 16, 2003
316
0
16
Canada
About 60% voter turnout - a perfect storm for the conservatives. Make no mistake - this was not an election result brought about by waves of "desire for change" - but rather by a potent mixture of apathy, negativity, and detachment.

Regardless, a monumental feat for Jack Layton - who in all fairness is easily the nicest, most genuine of the leaders. I fear his 100 seats however will mean squat to a majority government whose ideology is polar opposite to his, and who affords him even less respect than they do the liberals. With half his caucus from Quebec, he can look forward to being largely ignored and swept aside for four years. Harper has a tight grip on Ontario, B.C., and the West now - he couldn't care less about La Belle Province. And when English Canada gets more seats, he will relegate "the frogs" as Reformers like to call them, to permanent second-class status.

Reboot and rebuild time for the Liberal Party - will be interesting to see which tack they take in pursuing their reinvention.

Glad to see the Bloc marginalized - although a PQ provincial government is still a possibility. Also - once Quebecers realize Jack can't deliver what they want - look out. Quebec giveth, and Quebec taketh away. The liberals and conservatives have both learned that the hard way in previous elections.

I really don't like Stephen Harper gaining the big prize through his dishonest, underhanded, and undemocratic methods. We'll have to wait and see if he can resist the unfettered levers of near-absolute power.

What's ironic is that Layton doubled his seat count - and has far less power now than he did. Gotta love parliamentary democracy.
I predict 2 consecutive Conservative majorities given the fact that there is no one out there that can defeat them. Despite your rhetoric Canadians gave Harper a majority because they approved of the way he has governed the country for the last 5 years. Harper will finally get the opportunity to govern Canada without having to cater to the left and their socialist agenda.
 

aznboi9

Don't mind me...
May 3, 2005
1,380
3
38
Here Be Monsters
I predict 2 consecutive Conservative majorities given the fact that there is no one out there that can defeat them. Despite your rhetoric Canadians gave Harper a majority because they approved of the way he has governed the country for the last 5 years. Harper will finally get the opportunity to govern Canada without having to cater to the left and their socialist agenda.
Harper's share of the vote remained virtually unchanged from the last election, hardly a ringing endorsement of approval. His majority came about through the good fortune of a divided opposition, not because any great approval of a Conservative government.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
5,491
8
38
on yer ignore list
i think what happened in quebec is exactly what happens in the bc provincials when the liberal-conservative coalition gets too stale/corrupt/cocky - they get voted out by a protest vote (or the party faithful simply stay home) and who always wins? ndp

ndp is big labour - and what passes for big labour nowadays are the nurses, teachers and government employees, because most of the smokestacks are shut down and larry lunchbucket has had to retire on his wife's earnings
 

whoisjohngalt

Member
Aug 4, 2009
147
1
18
Vancouver area
Harper's share of the vote remained virtually unchanged from the last election, hardly a ringing endorsement of approval. His majority came about through the good fortune of a divided opposition, not because any great approval of a Conservative government.
Where have you been for the last 150 years? This is how our system works and has always worked (the occasional minority government notwithstanding): 40% of the vote = 100% of the power until the next election. Funny that all these people who decry the system when it leads to a Conservative majority didn't seem to be complaining through all those years of Liberal "majorities".
 

aznboi9

Don't mind me...
May 3, 2005
1,380
3
38
Here Be Monsters
Where have you been for the last 150 years? This is how our system works and has always worked (the occasional minority government notwithstanding): 40% of the vote = 100% of the power until the next election. Funny that all these people who decry the system when it leads to a Conservative majority didn't seem to be complaining through all those years of Liberal "majorities".
Well, I haven't been alive for 150 years; so I'm not sure what you're doing to be around that long, but please share.

Just because something happened in the past doesn't make it any more correct now. The Liberals "majorities" were conversely also due to the centre right vote being split between the PC's and Reform and were equally undeserving (eg: Chretien won with only 38% of the popular vote).
 

whoisjohngalt

Member
Aug 4, 2009
147
1
18
Vancouver area
I strongly believe that we should use a preferential ballot to elect MPs and that we should use direct election of the Prime Minister to elect the external face of Canada. That way, we don't have elections all the time and can have elections every 4 or 5 years. I think that our politics would become more civilized if the government can't fall because the opposition has every reason to continuously seek to topple it on baseless assertions.
I really like your reform proposals, but based on my (limited) understanding of the Canadian constitution, doubt very much that such major reforms could ever see the light of day. Under your system, would the cabinet be appointed by the PM and drawn from the parliament?
 

whoisjohngalt

Member
Aug 4, 2009
147
1
18
Vancouver area
Well, I haven't been alive for 150 years; so I'm not sure what you're doing to be around that long, but please share.

Just because something happened in the past doesn't make it any more correct now. The Liberals "majorities" were conversely also due to the centre right vote being split between the PC's and Reform and were equally undeserving (eg: Chretien won with only 38% of the popular vote).

I agree with you in princple that our so called majorities are undeserved, but I also believe that in our system minority governments are inherently unstable, and don't work. I think the lesser evil is awarding a party a mandate for 5 years to put forward their agenda, and then let the people judge them at the polls.
 

Devo

Member
Aug 16, 2003
316
0
16
Canada
Harper's share of the vote remained virtually unchanged from the last election, hardly a ringing endorsement of approval. His majority came about through the good fortune of a divided opposition, not because any great approval of a Conservative government.
Harper earned his majority fair and square. He will also be the PM of Canada for the next 4 years and will probably win the next election with a majority as well. The people of Canada have spoken.
 
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