The annual GFE vs PSE debate
- Thread starter Irresistible Isabelle
- Start date
AA_Train : You're right on the money. These acronyms are useless. I used to try and be subtle asking if people offered "GFE", and I quickly learned that for 10 women it means 10 different things. Now I cut to the chase and ask directly for what I want. It might seem crass, and it might give some people the wrong idea, but this is in fact a business transaction and we can't pretend that it isn't.
However - a GFE does not mean CBJ. Ever. If BBBJ is completely and totally off-limits, call it the VGFE. (Vancouver Girl Friend Experience). Vancouver is probably the only place where a BBBJ is not a given.
However - a GFE does not mean CBJ. Ever. If BBBJ is completely and totally off-limits, call it the VGFE. (Vancouver Girl Friend Experience). Vancouver is probably the only place where a BBBJ is not a given.
I agree. For me it about the whole feel. GFE is where I sense she wants to be there and makes me feel she is glad I'm there.GFE is all about attitude IMO and not specific services offered. Some of these providers that start ramming their tongue down your throat (after rimming their previous client) are providing GFE??? Not my cup of tea!
To each their own but for me body language is the key...LFK can be way more sensual than DFK (though it usually is not)
PSE to me means I can go on move monster . com and buy a movie with her in it.
One of my ATFs offers GFE PSE.
i'm pretty good with most of it, however although you don't like the logic i gotta say that i have indeed never had a girlfriend suck my dick with a condom on it.Yes, yes the topic has been done to death but as it always happens I see a lot of wishful thinking on the part of perberts on the subject of BBBJs. I'm a sucker for clarity so lets set the menu matter straight.... again.
I've always been under the impression, which has been confirmed by many SPs & perberts alike, that this is how the menus break down:
Non-GFE:
Blowjob - covered
Sex - covered
GFE:
Kissing (LFK vs DFK = YMMV)
DATY (Digits = YMMV)
Blowjob covered is standard (BBBJs are strictly YMMV usually dependent upon comfort level established over multiple sessions.)
Sex - covered
PSE:
Kissing
DATY
BBBJ (CIM = YMMV)
Sex - covered
Greek - covered
The argument "But I've never had a GF who gave me a BJ with a condom on, therefore GFE should include BBBJs unconditionally" doesn't fly in large part because by that logic, statistically, most people end up having unprotected sex with their SO's once tests are done and she's on the pill, and this will never happen with SPs for obvious reasons. And by the same logic, if we are going for authentic GFE experiences, then at some point the SP can forgo shaving her legs for a day or two
Previously there has been the suggestion that GFE be subdivided into "GFE" and "French GFE," the FGFE including BBBJs as the norm as they do in Montreal.
Thoughts?
lol, for the "vancouver girl friend experience" so true, so true. if its not way over priced lap dances at strip joints or whatever else is the norm out here its no bbbj on a gfe session.
there is reality and then there is vancouver.
Technology to the rescue.
All this talk about covered, uncovered etc. blah, blah.
If you you don't mind dropping a small bit of coin, there is a product out there --Avanti ($17 for five), that isn't latex ,and basically unless you look down there you wouldn't know you had it on.
The only problem is the ladies are too cheap to buy them ,or have never heard of them ,and are reluctant to use them.
They are made for big boys though so I don't know if the little fellas will find them useful.
I find I can still pop a load with a CBJ that would make a schoolboy jealous with one of them on.
BTW I don't work for them.
Also BTW a little stubble on the legs is nice once in awhile, (even under the arms) ,it is the natural state of affairs afterall. I am lookin for that once in awhile, but this I must be in the wrong country, as I haven't had any luck lately.
A body would hope an entrepreneurial minded Lady would fill the mkt. niche , but no they all prefer looking like pre-puberty----schoolgirls. Talk about sheep.
All this talk about covered, uncovered etc. blah, blah.
If you you don't mind dropping a small bit of coin, there is a product out there --Avanti ($17 for five), that isn't latex ,and basically unless you look down there you wouldn't know you had it on.
The only problem is the ladies are too cheap to buy them ,or have never heard of them ,and are reluctant to use them.
They are made for big boys though so I don't know if the little fellas will find them useful.
I find I can still pop a load with a CBJ that would make a schoolboy jealous with one of them on.
BTW I don't work for them.
Also BTW a little stubble on the legs is nice once in awhile, (even under the arms) ,it is the natural state of affairs afterall. I am lookin for that once in awhile, but this I must be in the wrong country, as I haven't had any luck lately.
A body would hope an entrepreneurial minded Lady would fill the mkt. niche , but no they all prefer looking like pre-puberty----schoolgirls. Talk about sheep.
Never had a girlfriend insist I wear a condom during head.
Ever had a gf you had to book time with, and who also booked gf time with others.......?
For some reason I was under the impression that the orginal meaning of GFE did include BBBJ which is why so many men insist the term GFE should automatically include BBBJ (unless 'saFe gfe' is advertised)??..
But without making it a debate on CBJ vs BBBJ, I think we can all agree that the term 'gfe' came about and started being used as a marketing term, and that in most men's mind (those who care), the term does typically include BBBJ and the majority do have this expectation. Adding 'safe' clarifies things from the get-go and avoids misunderstandings, disappointment or uncomfortable situations..
What I hate is when GFE doen't include kissing or DATY. I've had this happen before. Obviously I have not repeated with them.
hmmmmm well when i started this business....I was told this much...PSE means anything you see in a porn movie.
I dont know about the YMMV because that doesnt apply to me.
I hate to advertise PSE in a sense cause I dont offer cumming in ANY orfice. And that is what you see in most porns....ok I havent seen too mnay modern ones.
I stayed away from this line of business because at that time...I thought that the girls had to do it all including greek. At that time...I didnt do it.
Now that I am in the business...i see it is a different story.
We advertise the GFE and PSE to show our limitations.
In real life not all gf do cim, cof, or more. How many dont even do a BJ let alone a covered one. You are getting too literal here. Each girl is different, no matter who she is...whether she is your true life gf or a SP. Contact them and ask them point blank if they do certain acts or not.
Asking questions is not a bad thing you know.
love and laughs
April
If we're gonna go down that road then I suggest the term GFE no longer be used. How about SPE?Ever had a gf you had to book time with, and who also booked gf time with others.......?
You make an interesting point. I suppose listing whether you are a GFE or PSE is a way of showing your limitations and perhaps I am being a tad too literal, but my point is that we're trying to define terms that are vague and problematic because YMMV. It ALWAYS varies; from day to day, depending on a variety of factors (each others mood, mental state, physical condition etc). Whether a woman decides to do CBJ or BBBJ is up to them. I prefer a BBBJ but I'd rather have a CBJ than nothing at all. Basically, I want them perform whatever acts they feel comfortable with. If throwing on a glove makes them feel safer and relaxes them, so be it. If she's relaxed, she'll get into the session more and so will I and it will hopefully lead to a really fufilling session for both of us and leaving satisfied is more important to me rather than having particular kind of sexual experience.
That's like asking if he's ever dated a girl in Vancouver...Ever had a gf you had to book time with, and who also booked gf time with others.......?
GFE has to include DATY, BBBJ, DFK.
PSE is all of the above plus bbbjcim, facials and greek.
Its that simple. Anything different s/b called a W.E. wife experience.
PSE is all of the above plus bbbjcim, facials and greek.
Its that simple. Anything different s/b called a W.E. wife experience.
I've had greek with a lot of providers before but I wouldn't necessarily call them 'PSE'-type sessions; greek without the bbbj, cof, cim, etc. is just a regular FS or GFE session... with greek.
I've met quite a few ladies that offer everything from the PSE menu but I would never classify them as "PSE". Unfortunately for the sake of brevity, it would be easier to just assume that PSE means GREEK + FACIALS + SWALLOW, etc.
In fact, I don't think a single SP in Vancouver offers true PSE. My experiences in Brazil excluded, only one woman in Montreal was what I would actually call PSE. She looked the part, she played the part; it was awesome.
For me, a true PSE starts at the beginning. The woman has to have the look of a pornstar. She HAS to have that I don't know how else to say it, that bonafide "slut" look. Hair extensions, maybe bleached hair for blondes, implants, tanned, you know what I'm talking about. If she doesn't, all bets are off and not really PSE in my opinion. But at some point we have to draw the line...
I would prefer this type of classification :
F/S = CBJ, MPOS, MSOG
VGFE = CBJ, MPOS, MSOG, DATY, DFK
GFE = BBBJ, MPOS, MSOG, DATY, DFK
UltimateGFE = BBBJ, MPOS, MSOG, DATY, DFK, CIM/COF
PSE = BBBJ, MPOS, MSOG, DATY, DFK, CIM/COF + aggressive attitude towards sex (dirty talk, etc. )
and GREEK is a standalone addition to whomever choses to do it. There's nothing really pornstar-ish about GREEK. A chick that likes anal is just that - a chick that likes anal.
This way if someone told me they were a UGFE, I'd know they offer most PSE stuff with a GFE attitude. (which by and large is what most guys, myself included, would like). But I highly doubt we could ever get SP's to agree to standardize to something along these lines when advertising.
Thoughts?
I agree especially the point of a real PSE needing a gal who looks the part. One additional item and that is digits probably starting at VGFE down and digits front and back from GFE down.
Acts versus Attitude
So far the discusion has focused almost exclusively on the physical acts/menu and not on the way in which the experience is offered.
Not wanting to provide a dissertation on the subject, here are a few things I have observed in what others have written that contribute to GFE and PSE offerings, but don't completely differentiate the two.
GFE tends to develop over several visits. Conversation gets a bit more personal, the clock is less closely adhered to, more mileage may be offered, the visits may be longer and include non-sexual components, etc....
PSE is more focused on the creativity of the sexual experience. In addition to an expanded menu you might see fantasy rooms (hanging chairs, porn viewing, dirty talking, pvc and other provocative dress, a more hardcore attitude offered by the lady, limited personal conversation,,,)
So far the discusion has focused almost exclusively on the physical acts/menu and not on the way in which the experience is offered.
Not wanting to provide a dissertation on the subject, here are a few things I have observed in what others have written that contribute to GFE and PSE offerings, but don't completely differentiate the two.
GFE tends to develop over several visits. Conversation gets a bit more personal, the clock is less closely adhered to, more mileage may be offered, the visits may be longer and include non-sexual components, etc....
PSE is more focused on the creativity of the sexual experience. In addition to an expanded menu you might see fantasy rooms (hanging chairs, porn viewing, dirty talking, pvc and other provocative dress, a more hardcore attitude offered by the lady, limited personal conversation,,,)
Funny you mention Brazil, I think every experience I had there with one or two exceptions over 17 trips and over 600 garotas has been PSE. That place makes whore chasing across two contients worthwhile proposition
From a philosophical standpoint, those definitions are pretty much bang on.
Still, I think that defining ones self by either acronym can create expectations that may not meet some clients standards. Because YMMV, the definitions change and vary from person to person. My point throughout this thread is that women should start defining themselves in individual terms, not general ones. When they do that, they lump themselves in with everybody else and comparisons, sometimes unfair ones, are made. If you define yourself as an individual 1) You'll tend to stand out more which may lead to increased business and 2) Like it says in my signature (as of the time I wrote this) when you're being yourself, nobody can tell you you're doing it wrong
