If we had a handgun ban shit like this would not happen

[Fudd]

If we had a handgun ban shit like this would not happen:

Two dead, six injured in ‘heinous’ Vancouver shooting
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=b0c7730f-6d9a-4c2e-9663-83bc13766700&k=10169

During the last election, the Liberal government promised to ban handguns to put a stop to violence like this. But unfortunately, they lost and those gun loving Conservatives got in. Well I bet some people are regreting there decision for voting Harper in when things like this happen.

Harper claims "it's not a simple problem.."

Well how about banning hand guns to end all this type of violence!!!!!

 

[donjoh]

If we had a handgun ban shit like this would not happen:QUOTE]

"If we had a crime ban, shit would not happen."
(Oh, wait, we do; the Criminal code).

Seriously, do you really believe gang bangers will obey such a ban? "Sure, like they respect all the other laws."

"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

 

[Ray]

Handguns are already a restricted item.
Chances are, these handguns were illegally procured and unregistered.

The gun registry and a handgun ban do nothing to prevent the criminal element from obtaining these weapons and using them.

 

[georgebushmoron]

Handguns are already a restricted item.
Chances are, these handguns were illegally procured and unregistered.

The gun registry and a handgun ban do nothing to prevent the criminal element from obtaining these weapons and using them.

The first thing you said is correct. Most handguns in Canada were illegally smuggled in from the United States.

The second thing you said is just conjecture. A ban in Canada by itself won't prevent the smuggling in from the US, but tighter border security will. However, without a ban in Canada, guns would be legally available and would be dispersed legally in high enough quantity, such that if the criminal element wanted a handgun, they wouldn't have to smuggle it in from the US. They could just break into your house, your neighbor's house, the business down the street, and the gun shop down the road and take them.

 

[donjoh]

> I've read that the cops regularly access the gun registry to help solve crimes.

Really? That's news to me. Seeing that only a tiny fraction of registered guns get stolen. The majority of gang banger guns come from the States, or tru the port (China, etc.). And of course they are not in the Can. gun registry.
Ask your local cop what they think of "how much the registry helps them on the job".
And as far as the "regular access" goes, it is a pure statistic: Every time your name(s) get punched into the police computer (say when you get pulled over for speeding), it automatically checks the gun registry. In other words whether it is relevant or not.

 

[HappyHunter07]

here's a first

The first thing you said is correct. Most handguns in Canada were illegally smuggled in from the United States.

The second thing you said is just conjecture. A ban in Canada by itself won't prevent the smuggling in from the US, but tighter border security will. However, without a ban in Canada, guns would be legally available and would be dispersed legally in high enough quantity, such that if the criminal element wanted a handgun, they wouldn't have to smuggle it in from the US. They could just break into your house, your neighbor's house, the business down the street, and the gun shop down the road and take them.

Well here's a first, I'm agreeing with something georgebushmornon said. Not that I have anything against you george, we just seem to have mostly differing political views from what I've read on Perb. In this instance however, I agree with you. Not that what you said was rocket science, in fact, if this isn't obvious to any Johnny Q. Dimwit out there then we're all in a lot of trouble.

The truth of it is that the gun registry, any proposed handgun ban, is ineffective. Thus far Gun Control has been a billion dollar tax waste! If I am a criminal, and I want a gun, I can get one. End of story, weither I steal it, buy it on the black market, buy it in the states and smuggle it up, or trade my BC budd for a smuggled gun. The fact still remains, the ONLY people who are going to registar their guns, or comply to a handgun ban are people who wouldn't be inclined to commit a violent crime with them in the first place. All we're really doing is punishing the law-abiding citizen gun owners of this country. Stop it at the border as george suggested, forget a costly and ultimately ineffective ban, and focus on tightening security across the border to prevent illegal guns from reaching the gangsters on Vancouvers streets.

I have plenty more to say on this issue, however I'm sure I've already pissed enough people off for the time being, but hopefully I'll be able to add to this thread further

 

[LonelyGhost]

i agree the registry has been a waste of money, but that's the
government's fault, because a registry is still needed ... what's
missing is a simple adjunct law: having an unregistered gun in
your possession (doesn't matter who 'owns' it) will get you an
automatic 5 years ... no parole, no excuses, no appeals, five
years ...

use it to commit a crime ... minimum 10 years.

use it to injure someoneone ... min 15 years.

use it to kill someone ... min 20 years.

kill a cop, firefighter, govt official etc: min life.

Not a 'born in Canada' Canadian? Deportation along with
all family and friends ... even if you have 'citizenship' ...
tough crap to you and yours' ...

Lots of people immigrated to Canada and didn't make a living
committing crimes ... why should you?

 

[ihatemyskirt]

I thought in Canada we do have handgun bans.

 

[HeMadeMeDoIt]

We all know how much gangs whether Asian, bikers and all those other law abiding types would obey a gun ban. I am sure the guns used in this shooting were all licensed and the shooters had followed the proper route indicated in their restricted weapons license

 

[threepeat]

Come on.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I think we all know...those killers would have used whatever means necessary to accomplish the end result. Maybe they wouldn't have ambushed them like that..but it's not like they or we need guns to kill.

Whoever was targeted was as good as dead as soon as the ink was dry on the contract. Guns or no guns.

True, but guns make it easier, or there would be no need for them in the first place.

Imagine the reverse... gang members getting into their car getting ready for the hit, one reaches for his semi-automatic, and the other taps him on the shoulder and says, "come on man, leave that shit at home. Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

 

[JV1]

Well, imagine a situation where there is two people inside a restaurant surrounded by other people and one way or the other you want them dead. You don't own a gun because your a good law abiding citizen and guns are bad, how do you kill those two people then? A bomb obviously, maybe a pipe bomb or more likely a car bomb. Might take out an extra dozen or two but oh well, got the two you wanted. Thank God guns are banned.

 

[Fudd]

In terms of the Canada Gun Registry program. I recall after the first two years it was in place the government reported that the cost was 2 billion dollars. After that I don't know. But if we assume that the cost trend continued, the cost of the Gun Registry would be 1 billlion dollars a year.

I would be the first to admit that it is a very costly program and the money could be used to help the poor, build more social housing or clean up the environment.

But we must also think about the benifits of the program. The registryumakes it much easier for the police to solve crimes by using a data base to trace the guns origins either through the serial number if the gun was left behind or the groves left in the bullets. This would cut down on very expensive police hours.

Secondly, the registry would reduce the incedence of gun injuries thus reducing the cost of medical care which is even more expensive. Over all the gun registry is a financial plus. For every dollar spent on the Registry we probably save several times that cost in other areas.

 

[Fudd]

I hope in this case the police are able to use the Registry to trace the guns used at the restaurant to the owner. If the guns were stolen from him then hopefully they can find out who stole them. But most importantly, the owner should also be charged as an accessory to detour anybody from owning a handgun.

 

[kafka555]

I hope in this case the police are able to use the Registry to trace the guns used at the restaurant to the owner. If the guns were stolen from him then hopefully they can find out who stole them. But most importantly, the owner should also be charged as an accessory to detour anybody from owning a handgun.

This is highly unlikely, as our border is quite porous. Why would any gangster use a registered handgun to whack someone, when they can smuggle in a ballistically clean gun from the US, in exchange for heroin or weed or cash smuggled into the US. It doesn't make sense.

BTW, I heard a news report today that the police were following up information that the shooters may have been affiliated with the United Nations gang. Does anyone have an idea of the affiliation of the shootees?

 

[dipitydoo]

a comedian (can't remember who) once said that the gun violence problem would disappear if you made bullets extremely, incredibly expensive.

Might have been a joke, but it could probably work.

 

[donjoh]

> But we must also think about the benifits of the program. The registry
> makes it much easier for the police to solve crimes by using a data base
> to trace the guns origins either through the serial number if the gun was
> left behind or the groves left in the bullets.

Have you asked the cops how effective the registry has been in crime-solving? Virtually zip.

Very few crimes are committed with registered firearms. And there are no "grooveprints" in there. Besides, those can be defeated by "tampering with", or changing the barrel.

> Secondly, the registry would reduce the incedence of gun injuries thus
> reducing the cost of medical care which is even more expensive. Over all
> the gun registry is a financial plus. For every dollar spent on the Registry
> we probably save several times that cost in other areas.

You must be joking. Imagine if that money would have been put directly into policing & healthcare. Now *that* would save "in other areas".

 

[Fudd]

I think you better get your facts strait!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070809.wvanshooting0809/BNStory/National/home

"We have nine millimetre and .45 calibre shell casings on the floor,” Insp. Chapman said.

Which are hand gun callibers!

 

[Fudd]

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

That is a very wise philosophy. Who quoted this anyways???

 

[humanfly009]

I believe there are very strict regulations on guns here in canada. I'm pretty sure hand guns are practically band except for say competition use. Or police use.

 

[mr.e]

Stricter laws on unregistered hand guns. Bigger fines/jail time.