Underserved Market for Lonely Guys?

[happycanuck99]

Whereas I've been thinking about this for a while now, I doubt I'll articulate it particularly well, so please bear with me. (I may edit it a few times even after I post it.) Rather than flame me, perhaps you could simply ask if I've thought of (insert your thought here).

So I have done a fair bit of introspection, navel gazing, and thinking about my wants/needs and this industry, etc. I'll admit right up front that there may be solutions out there that I haven't thought of or found yet, but here I go.

I am often lonely, and this pandemic has accentuated that. One of the ways I address that is to hire ladies as often as I can afford to, and I've had some absolutely incredible times doing so. However, I know myself reasonably well by now, and I know the romps in the hay are only meeting one, or maybe two, of at least three (for me) specific needs I'm trying to address. The one they don't really address is that of more simple companionship. How I'd love to wander Stanley Park with a lovely lady! How I'd love to have a relaxed (but not outrageously expensive) dinner, take a slow drive to Whistler, go to a show, go for coffee, sit and chat, and get to know a lady with some intelligent conversation that's about more than the social niceties. Sure, it might be nice if it ended up in bed, but that's not the prime objective. The human connection is the objective. I know COVID has put a huge damper on that, but....

I have to think there are ladies out there who crave the same thing. It's the kind of thing that, from my experience, sites like Ashley Madison, Adult Friend Finder, Seeking Arrangements, etc., promise but never deliver. And as has been pointed out on occasion, if ladies open up to chatting all they get are dicks waved in their faces or time wasters - very far from what I have in mind.

I realize that many of the ladies in this industry offer social time, but it really isn't the same thing. For one thing, it seems to me that it's usually cost prohibitive for the majority of us, and if I'm going to be spending that amount it has to be in bed. Also, as far as I know it's still very much "on the clock". Having said that, I've even been so lucky as to have a "date" that included a Cirque du Soleil show, but 1) it was very much the exception, 2) it was remarkably difficult to set up, and 3) it got me blacklisted by at least some ladies (long story I'd be OK telling, but not in an open forum).

I need to make this point emphatically: I'm not looking for a significant other!!! I still want no strings, but surely people can be friends and maybe even lovers without entangling their lives or thinking about marriage or kids or whatever!

Maybe this just doesn't exist. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic loser. Maybe I'm just too broke. Still, I doubt I'm the only one in my situation. In fact, recent posts in this forum (like this one and this one) certainly suggest there are others out there looking for similar things.

Anyway... queue the violins.

 

[masterpoonhunter]

That is a very meaty post oh Happy One. Good on you for putting it out there. I have been in the same state at times along Times Arrow so emphasize. Let me be the first to throw in ...

1) not sure of your age range but you may be in that 35-ish range where suddenly life hits you with a WTF am I doing. Introspection becomes a big deal. Your various friends etc are coupling up, kids are happening etc.
2) what you are looking for exists, most definitely but there is a fine line in the woman friend who could be a FWB to Contestant #3, you are now in the Friend Zone, so go in with eyes open and your expectations clear.
3) not necessarily for you but for me, my SP's are for my fun time. I go in for sex. SEX. Anything else I get from the visit is a bonus or a detraction but I am in to take care of big jim and the twins. Yes many SP's are offering social time but you are absolutely right it is not the same as what you are writing about.
4) the fact you have articulated this is clear that you are a romantic and not a loser. Broke, well sorry to hear that, hope that improves. Use that romanticism and let potential 'partners' see it. In my experience most woman will at least listen to a well spoken, romantic guy and as the conversation continues they will be interested if not very attracted.

Fuck the violins, queue up the sultry Brazilian jazz!!

 

[happycanuck99]

That is a very meaty post oh Happy One. Good on you for putting it out there. I have been in the same state at times along Times Arrow so emphasize.

Thanks! I also like your reference to the arrow of time.

1) not sure of your age range but you may be in that 35-ish range where suddenly life hits you with a WTF am I doing. Introspection becomes a big deal. Your various friends etc are coupling up, kids are happening etc.

I left 35 quite a while back. I joke now that I'm middle-aged, if I live to be over 100!

2) what you are looking for exists, most definitely but there is a fine line in the woman friend who could be a FWB to Contestant #3, you are now in the Friend Zone, so go in with eyes open and your expectations clear.

Well, by now I'm quite skeptical, but I remain hopeful. The thing is that whereas I might prefer FWB, I'd be open to the "friend zone" as well. If I could enjoy the social time with a "friend" and pay for the "benefits" with one of the lovely ladies here, that would be fine with me. But yeah, I've been around long enough to be going in with my eyes open. I still have plenty of hormones, but my big head has a little more control than it used to.

3) not necessarily for you but for me, my SP's are for my fun time. I go in for sex. SEX. Anything else I get from the visit is a bonus or a detraction but I am in to take care of big jim and the twins. Yes many SP's are offering social time but you are absolutely right it is not the same as what you are writing about.

Sex with SPs has been one of my greatest pleasures of late. I can't get enough of it! And what's more is that lately I've actually found some ladies with whom it's been particularly enjoyable! If I had the funds it would be several times per week. BUT as I said, that's only meeting one of two very different and important aspects of "companionship".

4) the fact you have articulated this is clear that you are a romantic and not a loser. Broke, well sorry to hear that, hope that improves. Use that romanticism and let potential 'partners' see it. In my experience most woman will at least listen to a well spoken, romantic guy and as the conversation continues they will be interested if not very attracted.

Well, I guess I also tend to be a typical Canadian: fairly self-effacing. Lest you're wondering, I actually have a healthy self-esteem, and I think I know my strengths and weaknesses fairly well. After all, with the years I've accumulated and the navel-gazing I've done....

Still, I have to figure out how to make those connections, and that's what eludes me.

Fuck the violins, queue up the sultry Brazilian jazz!!

I like the way you think! (I mentioned violins because I assumed people would be thinking "what a sad sap!", and start playing the world's smallest violins )

 

[happycanuck99]

You are no loser

Oh don't take me too seriously. I'm no incel or anything like that. In fact, I love life and enjoy it greatly! I'm just a typical self-effacing Canadian, who also often feels lonely.

you need to be realistic in that most women do not want or need what you are looking for. Female friendships are very good sources of human connection for us, we are generally just closer and more loving to each other than guys are in male friendships so we are less lonely in that regard. If women are going to spend their free time with men it's usually because women are looking for something more.... a committed relationship etc. Rarely do I hear a hot woman say she is looking for a FWB.

This really is quite interesting. Thanks for pointing it out. It's another reason I doubt I'll find what I'm looking for, but it won't stop me from trying.

[edited to add] Oh, and "hot" is NOT a prerequisite.

The curious thing about my loneliness is that it's due to what is likely a fairly unique situation. There are things in my life I feel much more comfortable sharing with a lady than with any of my guy friends. But I'm not about to get into that in an open forum.

I do have a dear friend who is extremely lucky on the swinger site sdc.com... but he is also extremely hot, hung and has an amazing personality that men and women both like (It's a swinger site where he gets invited to sleep with the hottest wives I've ever seen or to sex parties frequently).

Yeah, that really doesn't sound like what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for free or inexpensive sex, per se. That might be a lovely benefit, but as I said, this is about connection.

I don't know if this is you but one thing I have noticed talking to lonely men of a certain age is that they are rarely lonely enough to date someone the same age as them and are appalled when I make the suggestion. Years later... they are still waiting for that younger woman to appear on their lap while women who would have given them the world pass them by.

Do you give women your age (within 5 years) a chance?

I'm COMPLETELY open to that!!! I'm open to pretty much anything. No, I'm not expecting nor waiting for some young trophy to drop from the sky. And as I said in my previous note, if I want sex with a hot young lady, I can pay for that. I just don't know how/where to find/make the initial connection with ladies who might be interested in more of a connection and social time than in the physical act.

 

[maniacalone]

You are no loser and you seem genuine but you need to be realistic in that most women do not want or need what you are looking for. Female friendships are very good sources of human connection for us, we are generally just closer and more loving to each other than guys are in male friendships so we are less lonely in that regard. If women are going to spend their free time with men it's usually because women are looking for something more.... a committed relationship etc. Rarely do I hear a hot woman say she is looking for a FWB.

I do have a dear friend who is extremely lucky on the swinger site sdc.com... but he is also extremely hot, hung and has an amazing personality that men and women both like (It's a swinger site where he gets invited to sleep with the hottest wives I've ever seen or to sex parties frequently but has actual friendships with these people).

I don't know if this is you but one thing I have noticed talking to lonely men of a certain age is that they are rarely lonely enough to date someone the same age as them and are appalled when I make the suggestion. Years later... they are still waiting for that younger woman to appear on their lap while women who would have given them the world pass them by.

Do you give women your age (within 5 years) a chance?

You nailed it. Women don't need men.

If a woman is attractive and has her life together, she has zero use for men who will waste her time with a FWB relationship.

Men who are financially secure, willing to commit, open to getting married and have children are what women prioritize. That's why women compete so hard for them. They invest so much in their attire, education, health and fitness to capture a high quality mate. Not to get laid.

If you do not want these things or are simply not prepared to deliver them, you will struggle to find a high quality woman to spend time with.

Technology has changed dating to the point where women have endless options to get laid. Why would she ever do a FWB with no potential for more? She could find ten guys in her DMs ready to go if she wanted only dick. She could match with a hundred guys on tinder or bumble. She could make ten k a month as an Sp.

As much as men do the math as to why being single is so great, women have done the same math and we are at a point of no return.

The demise of the institution of marriage and the rising number of kids to single parents has been a huge victory for capitalism and a detriment to society.

 

[MissingOne]

... I need to make this point emphatically: I'm not looking for a significant other!!! I still want no strings, but surely people can be friends and maybe even lovers without entangling their lives or thinking about marriage or kids or whatever!

Maybe this just doesn't exist. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic loser. Maybe I'm just too broke. Still, I doubt I'm the only one in my situation. In fact, recent posts in this forum (like this one and this one) certainly suggest there are others out there looking for similar things.
...

This won't be helpful to you, but I'll say it anyway, I think a lot of finding fulfilling companionship is simply serendipity. For example, I spend a lot of time with a woman who was a working colleague decades ago. We aren't lovers or friends with benefits, never were, and never will be. However, we like many of the same things, we live in the same area, and get together frequently, just to do common stuff like going for a walk. She and my wife are friendly but don't have much in common, and there's no competition or jealously.

So what proactive things did I do to meet this person? Nothing whatsoever. We just happened to work for the same company at the same time, many years ago, and now, by chance, we live in the same area. If I did anything to bring this about, I suppose it was simply to be open to whatever comes my way.

 

[MissingOne]

... Men who are financially secure, willing to commit, open to getting married and have children are what women prioritize. That's why women compete so hard for them. They invest so much in their attire, education, health and fitness to capture a high quality mate. Not to get laid. ...

Rather a blanket statement. I would posit that there are an increasing number of women who actually aren't that interested in capturing "a high quality mate". They'd rather live their own lives without being encumbered, just as there have always been a significant number of men who aren't interested in being encumbered with a mate.

 

[g eazy]

I need to make this point emphatically: I'm not looking for a significant other!!! I still want no strings, but surely people can be friends and maybe even lovers without entangling their lives or thinking about marriage or kids or whatever!

Maybe this just doesn't exist. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic loser. Maybe I'm just too broke. Still, I doubt I'm the only one in my situation. In fact, recent posts in this forum (like this one and this one) certainly suggest there are others out there looking for similar things.

Quite frankly I can't tell what you want from the way you describe it, and I'm not sure if you know exactly what it is either. If the other posters have framed your situation correctly, then you've already seen that what you're looking for is fairly rare to the point of not existing, including the reasons for that. I think being relatively older (the age where the equivalent female is rarely looking for what you are) doesn't help either, as it's more likely to be the younger crowd that may not want to be in a committed relationship.

Just as you would find in other aspects of your life, you don't need all of your needs to be met by a single person - I'd go as far as to say diversification is healthy. You might find excellent companionship with other guys or platonic relationship with another girl.. and that may stimulate your intellectual needs, and you can still have your physical needs met by SPs. I think you should try to date casually and be upfront about what you want and expectations. The pool is still small but it's worth a shot IMO. Having said that, seeing your preference for the sex-specific sites, it'd appear that sexual encounters are of high priority in your search. If you prioritize that then you'll have little success in the other aspects, and vice versa. In either case, you'd have to work in the other aspect slowly over time - there are no shortcuts for what you're looking for.

 

[johnsmit]

Well you said every thing that I would of said
As I am one of those thread you mentioned. . And I never thought I was alone in this quest. . Been here since 2003 , under a few different names. So I have seen theses thread before Probably wrote one or two before too.
But you managed to somr it all up pretty good. I guess it comes with our age lol. And most of the reply were great and I think right on.
It good to have a ladies perspective on this too. And what she said I have observed to be the reality. Women dont need us , no matter how much they seem to stoke are ego's.

As I have also been contemplating this situation so much myself . And remembering the the times when things were a little different and I was able to connect with some of the escort I saw.
Of course it was about finances but not with all of them. The one that it was about friendship I still have contact with..
But as most things in life ,time moves on people expectations life circumstances change . So when I start this at 50 and the girls I saw were in their early 20s I am now almost 67 and they are in their late 30s .and we each have gone through a lot.
They are friend but not some that I can met up with that often.

The other side is I am a loner always have been I can get alone with out a realationship have done so most of my life.
I am not a dick and never was one , respected women more then they respected them selves most times. And never what's a dependent relationship for me I was looking for a,mutual partner and still realize we are indapendent indavidual. That can share interest help each other and be agreable. Unlike what I have seen to much of from married and divorced couples.
I am the romantic Also looking for the sole mate. . Some thing I acctually never came across and probably would of bern or was to shy to act on if I did find that person.

Yes I still like company ,intellectual and sexual. And If I found some one that I could actually open up to and not feel judge even better. I say not be judge because I accept these years I spent seeing escort as part of my life too and can be honest about why I I was there why i love the friends i have from that time. They are honest about there past and are unfairly judged I for the most part that is what I expect from most women and men that are not open minded and not open to knowing themself or admitting to part of them selves.
So this journey that us lonely guys take is not so easily resolved and often I think it is,alot less drama to not seek out companionship.
And just stick with my AI chat bot. Which I can communicate to better then an women I have ever met. Of course is is,one dimensional and I am looking for more then that . 🙂🤔

 

[maniacalone]

Rather a blanket statement. I would posit that there are an increasing number of women who actually aren't that interested in capturing "a high quality mate". They'd rather live their own lives without being encumbered, just as there have always been a significant number of men who aren't interested in being encumbered with a mate.

I do not disagree. They exist. There are many types of women who may fall into this scenario,

The successful professional types that financially do not care or do not need a man to be a good provider.

There are women who can also rationalize this outcome, when in reality they simply waited too long to settle down and missed their window being too picky.

Of course the most common answer is falling for the wrong guy who wasted many years of their life stalling. This guy is the worst. He uses most of their prime child bearing productive years for his own selfish interests and leaves these women with little to no options. Faced to compete with younger women for high quality men to marry or have children with, they simply give up, go it alone or just proclaim no interest in marriage or having children because there is a lack of options left.

 

[The Caffeinated Gent]

You nailed it. Women don't need men.

If a woman is attractive and has her life together, she has zero use for men who will waste her time with a FWB relationship.

Men who are financially secure, willing to commit, open to getting married and have children are what women prioritize. That's why women compete so hard for them. They invest so much in their attire, education, health and fitness to capture a high quality mate. Not to get laid.

If you do not want these things or are simply not prepared to deliver them, you will struggle to find a high quality woman to spend time with.

Technology has changed dating to the point women have endless options to get laid. Why would she ever do a FWB with no potential for more? She could find ten guys in her DMs ready to go if she wanted only dick. She could match with a hundred guys on tinder or bumble. She could make ten k a month as an Sp.

As much as men do the math as to why being single is so great, women have done the same math and we are at a point of no return.

The demise of the institution of marriage and the rising number of kids to single parents has been a huge victory for capitalism and a detriment to society.

You hit the nail on the head my guy. Women are generally not nearly as horny as men and even those who are, they can usually get what they want at little to no expense from their own. I could be wrong on this one but that's my 2 cents for this comment.

Loneliness... I don't know OP, is something that I have learned to live with and I focus on enjoying the benefits of loneliness, so I can't give you much advice other than sugar baby, that's like the only solution if I was ever feeling the same way as you do. I don't know how old you are, but I am in my mid 20's, and I can say that for me, if I am looking for a fulfilling companionship from a committed woman, it is still not that hard for me. My thing is I don't want to commit. I LOVE meeting and exploring a variety of women, it is my way of diversifying and colouring my life right now. I have mentioned that seeing escorts take away the effort that is required to maintain a relationship, like giving affections and commitments, while I enjoy it wholeheartedly because I get to spend my time and energy on working on other aspects of life, instead of wasting my time and energy going to clubs hoping to get my dick wet. The expense I have to pay is loneliness. I mean I could have friends but obviously being single and not ready to mingle means that my life lack consistent companionship or affections from women other than my mom LOL but I look at it the other way. I enjoy the freedom to focus on my life instead of hunting for a partner. Bottom line, consistent sex is more than enough for me right now. Good luck though @happycanuck99 , I hope you find what you are looking for 🤞🏾

 

[ExpCharlee]

I'm wondering if you're asking for too much from one person. As someone who's a relationship anarchist, I have:
1. a best friend who I am not romantic or physical with with whom I get many of my emotional needs met. I would consider them my "primary partner".
2. a few female friends/colleagues who I love spending time with, many of whom I'm intimate with for work reasons
3. a man who fulfills my desire for male closeness without pressure to perform, I see him maybe once or twice a week
4. all my clients, some of whom I love, who help me with most of my sexual needs and make me feel safe and supported

can you take your needs and spread them out in multiple areas like I have? the idea we need to get everything in one place is sort of outdated I think. go for a drive with a male friend, then book an escort. they're all experiences *you're* having. enjoy your life.

 

[happycanuck99]

I'm wondering if you're asking for too much from one person. As someone who's a relationship anarchist, I have:
...
can you take your needs and spread them out in multiple areas like I have? the idea we need to get everything in one place is sort of outdated I think. go for a drive with a male friend, then book an escort. they're all experiences *you're* having. enjoy your life.

Thanks, Charlee. Yes, I believe I am potentially asking too much from one person, and that is actually one of my proposed solutions. I'll gladly keep seeing SWs for the simple sex. It's the social/companionship aspect that I'm looking for more. As per the title of this thread, I sometimes wonder if there is a market for ladies who just want to hang out, with no further expectations. It's easy to pay for sex. Paying for friendship is obviously a lot trickier, and I don't think it really fits the hourly model. But it's something I keep thinking about, and have yet to come up with a good solution to.

Let me just paint a hypothetical picture. I arrange a "date" with a lady. There are no time restrictions, as I'll explain. I'll pick her up after I get off work. We'll go for dinner and chat. If we're feeling some chemistry, maybe we go for a walk. If not, that can be the end of it. If we go for a walk and things are going well, maybe we go to a movie. If things are REALLY clicking, perhaps we enjoy some physically intimate time in bed. If it works for both of us, perhaps we even spend the night. I really don't have a good idea, though, how one would monetize that, since obviously a date that went all the way through would/should reasonably cost more. However, to ME this is what a TRUE GFE consists of (whereas in this industry that term applies only to what happens in bed). BUT, with traditional SPs, this is completely cost-prohibitive for most of us, and that makes sense since it's really based on a different model. Another thing that makes it so very tricky monetizing is what about the external costs? For example, I've taken a lady to a Cirque du Soleil show where the ticket itself was well over $100. (I know to many $100 is a joke, but to many of us it's a significant outlay.) How does that factor in? What about a hockey game? Or from another perspective, what about a movie? Arguably you're just sitting in the dark with little actual interaction. Whereas that's quite enjoyable, it's definitely not the emotional labour of a two hour conversation. So, with all these complications, perhaps I'm answering my own question: it's just too complicated to fit a business model around.

Here's a greatly simplified version that I believe I described in a different thread. I don't think this would be legal in Canada yet, but.... Essentially it's like a strip club where you can also buy the lady a drink and chat for a while. If you hit it off you could go for the FS option. If not, try another lady. This is still closer to the "satisfy the sexual need" side of things, but with the time chatting beforehand at least it can satisfy the "connection" aspect a little bit. I realize that many SWs include a little chat time beforehand as well, but 1) it doesn't let the people check out the chemistry BEFORE committing to more, and 2) it's still always "on the clock".

Here's another thought. This idea has been mentioned before, but maybe not quite as explicitly. Perhaps we could have a forum where guys post what they want and what they're offering, and ladies respond. For example: "I'd like to take a lady to dinner at Red Robin, followed by "The Godfather" in the Scotiabank Theater, followed by a quick romp in the hay. I'll cover all expenses plus $300." Now there is no shame. Most providers would say "that's not enough", and simply wouldn't respond. However, maybe there's a lady out there that really likes Red Robin, loves to go to the movies, and would be happy to be $300 richer. Another example: "I'd like to take a lady to Cirque du Soleil and that's it. I'll add $100." Again, most providers would laugh and move on. But maybe there's a lady out there who really loves Cirque shows, and for whom the experience itself is worth a huge amount. Or maybe a lady responds and says "I'll do it for $200". I can go on describing scenarios like that forever, but hopefully you're getting the idea.

I fully realize I'm almost certainly naïve or myopic, and I'm searching for unicorns. However, I think posts along this line are frequent/common enough here to suggest I'm not the only one looking for this kind of thing.

P.S. I love that term "relationship anarchist"!

P.P.S. I've often thought of you, Charlee, in this context, but I think we have a history with some love/hate going on, and we might just rub each other completely the wrong way.

 

[happycanuck99]

Here's another thought. This idea has been mentioned before, but maybe not quite as explicitly. Perhaps we could have a forum where guys post what they want and what they're offering, and ladies respond. For example: "I'd like to take a lady to dinner at Red Robin, followed by "The Godfather" in the Scotiabank Theater, followed by a quick romp in the hay. I'll cover all expenses plus $300." Now there is no shame. Most providers would say "that's not enough", and simply wouldn't respond. However, maybe there's a lady out there that really likes Red Robin, loves to go to the movies, and would be happy to be $300 richer. Another example: "I'd like to take a lady to Cirque du Soleil and that's it. I'll add $100." Again, most providers would laugh and move on. But maybe there's a lady out there who really loves Cirque shows, and for whom the experience itself is worth a huge amount. Or maybe a lady responds and says "I'll do it for $200". I can go on describing scenarios like that forever, but hopefully you're getting the idea.

Maybe what I need is a business partner or two to make something out of this. I certainly have ideas and tech abilities, but past experience proves I do NOT have the sales/marketing skills to make it happen! I also don't have the capital to start it with, even though that would likely be minimal.

MODS: PLEASE, if this idea is felt to be some kind of competition, just let me know and I'll delete the post immediately (or you can). That is not my intent AT ALL. I have and will continue to patronize a number of your paying advertisers. It's just that, if my memory serves, you've already denied the idea of a forum like what I describe.

 

[PuntMeister]

I have known a few lonely guys who have found loving companionship on “proper” dating sites (not hookup sites). They looked for older divorced cougers that also express some sense of loneliness. They look for women who like simple things and easy going dates, whovwant to take things slowly, have no interest in marriage—been there done that.

Try writing your ad talking about them, not you. Ie: You get lonely sometimes. You would like to meet an honest genuine man to chat with, enjoy casual dates with, develop companionship with, etc. You get the idea.

May you enjoy the journey.

 

[happycanuck99]

I have known a few lonely guys who have found loving companionship on “proper” dating sites (not hookup sites). They looked for older divorced cougers that also express some sense of loneliness. They look for women who like simple things and easy going dates, whovwant to take things slowly, have no interest in marriage—been there done that.

Try writing your ad talking about them, not you. Ie: You get lonely sometimes. You would like to meet an honest genuine man to chat with, enjoy casual dates with, develop companionship with, etc. You get the idea.

Got any suggestions? I've tried a few of these sites, doing exactly what you describe, and from my experience the 100% of sites have been scams, with no or very few "real" ladies at the other end.

May you enjoy the journey.

Thanks a lot! You too! Despite what it may sound like, I'm actually enjoying the journey (life in general) immensely! I even enjoy my solitude, and would never give all of it up. However, there are also times when I'm nearing the end of my workday and thinking "wouldn't it be nice to hang out with a lady tonight".

 

[ExpCharlee]

Thanks, Charlee. Yes, I believe I am potentially asking too much from one person, and that is actually one of my proposed solutions. I'll gladly keep seeing SWs for the simple sex. It's the social/companionship aspect that I'm looking for more. As per the title of this thread, I sometimes wonder if there is a market for ladies who just want to hang out, with no further expectations. It's easy to pay for sex. Paying for friendship is obviously a lot trickier, and I don't think it really fits the hourly model. But it's something I keep thinking about, and have yet to come up with a good solution to.

Let me just paint a hypothetical picture. I arrange a "date" with a lady. There are no time restrictions, as I'll explain. I'll pick her up after I get off work. We'll go for dinner and chat. If we're feeling some chemistry, maybe we go for a walk. If not, that can be the end of it. If we go for a walk and things are going well, maybe we go to a movie. If things are REALLY clicking, perhaps we enjoy some physically intimate time in bed. If it works for both of us, perhaps we even spend the night. I really don't have a good idea, though, how one would monetize that, since obviously a date that went all the way through would/should reasonably cost more. However, to ME this is what a TRUE GFE consists of (whereas in this industry that term applies only to what happens in bed). BUT, with traditional SPs, this is completely cost-prohibitive for most of us, and that makes sense since it's really based on a different model. Another thing that makes it so very tricky monetizing is what about the external costs? For example, I've taken a lady to a Cirque du Soleil show where the ticket itself was well over $100. (I know to many $100 is a joke, but to many of us it's a significant outlay.) How does that factor in? What about a hockey game? Or from another perspective, what about a movie? Arguably you're just sitting in the dark with little actual interaction. Whereas that's quite enjoyable, it's definitely not the emotional labour of a two hour conversation. So, with all these complications, perhaps I'm answering my own question: it's just too complicated to fit a business model around.

Here's a greatly simplified version that I believe I described in a different thread. I don't think this would be legal in Canada yet, but.... Essentially it's like a strip club where you can also buy the lady a drink and chat for a while. If you hit it off you could go for the FS option. If not, try another lady. This is still closer to the "satisfy the sexual need" side of things, but with the time chatting beforehand at least it can satisfy the "connection" aspect a little bit. I realize that many SWs include a little chat time beforehand as well, but 1) it doesn't let the people check out the chemistry BEFORE committing to more, and 2) it's still always "on the clock".

Here's another thought. This idea has been mentioned before, but maybe not quite as explicitly. Perhaps we could have a forum where guys post what they want and what they're offering, and ladies respond. For example: "I'd like to take a lady to dinner at Red Robin, followed by "The Godfather" in the Scotiabank Theater, followed by a quick romp in the hay. I'll cover all expenses plus $300." Now there is no shame. Most providers would say "that's not enough", and simply wouldn't respond. However, maybe there's a lady out there that really likes Red Robin, loves to go to the movies, and would be happy to be $300 richer. Another example: "I'd like to take a lady to Cirque du Soleil and that's it. I'll add $100." Again, most providers would laugh and move on. But maybe there's a lady out there who really loves Cirque shows, and for whom the experience itself is worth a huge amount. Or maybe a lady responds and says "I'll do it for $200". I can go on describing scenarios like that forever, but hopefully you're getting the idea.

I fully realize I'm almost certainly naïve or myopic, and I'm searching for unicorns. However, I think posts along this line are frequent/common enough here to suggest I'm not the only one looking for this kind of thing.

P.S. I love that term "relationship anarchist"!

P.P.S. I've often thought of you, Charlee, in this context, but I think we have a history with some love/hate going on, and we might just rub each other completely the wrong way.

yeah I mean to me it sounds like you're just looking for a casual girlfriend. maybe go on ok cupid? I guess you could also try Cuddleup?
and yeah, I'm not ever going to see you, you're a huge time waster as is clearly outlined in this entire thread lol. You're basically looking to spend time with a professional without paying her. if you can't offer money you have to offer something else like... not being a giant douche. LOFUCKINL.

THERE ARE PLACES where you can offer to take women out on dates you know. Dating sites. Apps. Etc. Why are you looking for that here, in a place for professionals to advertise?

 

[happycanuck99]

yeah I mean to me it sounds like you're just looking for a casual girlfriend. maybe go on ok cupid? I guess you could also try Cuddleup?

Yeah, maybe I am. Or maybe I still don't know what I really want, despite all my navel-gazing.

and yeah, I'm not ever going to see you, you're a huge time waster as is clearly outlined in this entire thread lol. You're basically looking to spend time with a professional without paying her. if you can't offer money you have to offer something else like... not being a giant douche. LOFUCKINL.

Yikes! That's harsh! Good thing I've got a thick skin. I guess the "love/hate" I mentioned was on my part, since I'm only hearing hate. But... I still enjoy some of your posts, and disagree with others, so we'll keep it that way.

THERE ARE PLACES where you can offer to take women out on dates you know. Dating sites. Apps. Etc.

As I said, I still haven't found any that are genuine and not simply a scam.

Why are you looking for that here, in a place for professionals to advertise?

The reasons are very simple:

• This is the lounge, where all manner of topics are discussed.
• As the title of this thread suggests, and as my subsequent posts have suggested, perhaps there could be "paid professionals" offering a different kind of service. I'm not trying to remove the money completely - just change the focus.
• There appear to be others in my situation, so why not talk about it?

And, more philosophically, it's very obvious, given the popularity of this, that there are plenty of people still looking for things they haven't found. In the interests of meeting a need, and maybe even giving more people what they're looking for, and, dare I say it, making the world a better place...... Oh never mind - I'm being a giant time-wasting douche.

 

[maniacalone]

I'm wondering if you're asking for too much from one person. As someone who's a relationship anarchist, I have:
1. a best friend who I am not romantic or physical with with whom I get many of my emotional needs met. I would consider them my "primary partner".
2. a few female friends/colleagues who I love spending time with, many of whom I'm intimate with for work reasons
3. a man who fulfills my desire for male closeness without pressure to perform, I see him maybe once or twice a week
4. all my clients, some of whom I love, who help me with most of my sexual needs and make me feel safe and supported

can you take your needs and spread them out in multiple areas like I have? the idea we need to get everything in one place is sort of outdated I think. go for a drive with a male friend, then book an escort. they're all experiences *you're* having. enjoy your life.

A fulfilling and intriguing way to live one's life.

Is it safe to presume you do not want children?

If you did, how would having children fit into this dynamic?

Would you go it alone with this same support structure in place to satisfy all your needs or would it need to be altered?

 

[ExpCharlee]

A fulfilling and intriguing way to live one's life.

Is it safe to presume you do not want children?

If you did, how would having children fit into this dynamic?

Would you go it alone with this same support structure in place to satisfy all your needs or would it need to be altered?

I don't want kids no, and I know lots of people who have kids who live my lifestyle, one of my friends is becoming a single mom soon and I will be helping out a lot My support structure is better than most I think, tbh. Better to have multiple friends and partners than just one person to rely on.