Sexual Harassment - You Have To Be Careful.

[sevenofnine]

I listened to a news show, cbc radio

some women was complaining all crying, some guy put her hand on her knee, and tried to kiss, her,
she stood her ground and the guy her friend she thought went running
she talked about how traumatized and upset she was and cried and how it affected her for years.

as a guy we face harassment all our lives don't we,
not sexual harassment in most cases buy physical violence or threats.
it is a constant theme, isn't it,
it happens periodically not constantly, but it does happen every year or couple years,
somebody gets all in your grill and wants to beat the shit out of you.

not to make light of sexual harassment and rape for women,
I know an actually rape and sexual harassment can ruin a persons life. forever,

but there are studies showing 20 to 40 percent of sexual harassment and rape allegations are false.

bill Cosby his case was thrown out.

I know a women was going to charge a guy, because she said the guy was looking at her in a creepy way.

like I said I don't want to minimize the violence and abuse of women,

but are we not doing so, when we give credence creditability,
to women who say well he put his hand on my knee, and I had to say no twice,
or he looked at me in a creepy way.
we are minimizing the credibility of women who were actually raped and abused.

and a women who gets drunk or high and go with some one for a job opportunity, or a career move.

and years latter she decides well that wasn't right. there wasn't something quite right about that.
if you shut your mouth for ten or twenty years, you might won't to think about why now.

I know kids and violent physical assaults
its different

but you were drunk and or high you went willing and actually had some sort of relationship with the person, before and after, and you weren't a kid.
so why now ten years latter to ease your guilty conscience

 

[golferjohn]

Fuck being politically correct.

So now men have to walk on eggshells in fear of using humour incase someone is offended? I think we’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water if that’s where society is going.

Now an innocent joke can be used by a vengeful woman to destroy a man’s life?? Oh and it already has. What happened to Nobel prize winner Tim Hunt is a perfect example.

Unfortunately, yes. The stakes are too high to even dare. Remember, it's not the words but how the words made someone feel...if they're particularly sensitive that day then you've committed harassment.
Better to not engage than be potentially ruined

 

[marsvolta]

to be clear... the term "politically correct" is a boogeyman term coined by the same individuals/entities that create terms like "liberal", "socialist", "terrorist", "left-wing", "right-wing" etc etc... created on all sides of the political spectrum they are intended as a call to arms for mindlessness and hatred.

specifically, "politically correct" is meant to create fear in predominantly white men because they are loosing power.... the power to discriminate on sex, religion and race... the power to just generally be assholes.

encouragingly, these terms are only effective on a fraction of our society. there are real issues and real proposed solutions to those issues that resist being clumped up into some frame-less term. women don't appreciate all the shit they have had to deal with for centuries just trying to put food in their mouths. they don't appreciate men using bogus terms to describe their desire to continue with the status quo.

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

and years latter she decides well that wasn't right. there wasn't something quite right about that.
if you shut your mouth for ten or twenty years, you might won't to think about why now.

but you were drunk and or high you went willing and actually had some sort of relationship with the person,
before and after, and you weren't a kid.
so why now ten years latter to ease your guilty conscience

Fuck being politically correct.

So now men have to walk on eggshells in fear of using humour incase someone is offended? I think we’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water if that’s where society is going.

Now an innocent joke can be used by a vengeful woman to destroy a man’s life?? Oh and it already has. What happened to Nobel prize winner Tim Hunt is a perfect example.

Ffs, go after the real criminals. Like the ones who actually rape and sexually assault women. Or those guilty of incessant verbal sexual harassment, yes. Just an isolated joke... that is political correctness gone mad.

You both have spoken of why political correctness drives me nuts. What was considered passive 10-20 years ago and
brought up again today can destroy a mans life. There was no problem with the situation back then except if the
woman did not want the mans hand on her knee she would have smacked him across the head, got up and walked
away. End of story.
He would have got her message loud and clear. Don't touch!

Now I ask, So why on god's green earth can they now bring this up and actually be charged for something
that years ago was not even a misdemeanor?

That's like trying to Sue an automaker today for a loved ones death back in the 60's because the
car did not come with seatbelts.
Like Miss Hunter stated and today it is just rampant in the news with all the backstabbing, harassment charges
being laid, sexual and otherwise for things that went on how many years ago?

Only today you get charged for that. Why can they turn the clock BACK on something that happened way back
then when it was just looked upon as goofing around? It's insanity at its best.





.......................QM'r

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

In terms of "mind control" that is certainly heavy handed terminology that does his argument a huge disservice by coming across as exagerated and alarmist.

to be clear... the term "politically correct" is a boogeyman term coined by the same individuals/entities that create terms like "liberal", "socialist", "terrorist", "left-wing", "right-wing" etc etc... created on all sides of the political spectrum they are intended as a call to arms for mindlessness and hatred.

specifically, "politically correct" is meant to create fear in predominantly white men because they are loosing power.... the power to discriminate on sex, religion and race... the power to just generally be assholes.

encouragingly, these terms are only effective on a fraction of our society. there are real issues and real proposed solutions to those issues that resist being clumped up into some frame-less term. women don't appreciate all the shit they have had to deal with for centuries just trying to put food in their mouths. they don't appreciate men using bogus terms to describe their desire to continue with the status quo.

Face it lads............we're Doomed!! :grouphug::lol:





........................QM'r

 

[NEbaD]

to be clear... the term "politically correct" is a boogeyman term coined by the same individuals/entities that create terms like "liberal", "socialist", "terrorist", "left-wing", "right-wing" etc etc... created on all sides of the political spectrum they are intended as a call to arms for mindlessness and hatred.

specifically, "politically correct" is meant to create fear in predominantly white men because they are loosing power.... the power to discriminate on sex, religion and race... the power to just generally be assholes.

encouragingly, these terms are only effective on a fraction of our society. there are real issues and real proposed solutions to those issues that resist being clumped up into some frame-less term. women don't appreciate all the shit they have had to deal with for centuries just trying to put food in their mouths. they don't appreciate men using bogus terms to describe their desire to continue with the status quo.

Are you for real? You're saying, umm, boogeyman terms, created by mysterious "individuals/entities", in a conscious & concerted effort to instill fear and hatred in, uh, white males, with a desired result of exactly what, I ask? Do tell, just who are these "individuals/entities," and whomever you say they are, please provide some evidence as to a connection between this person/people and their campaign to instill mindlessness & hate.

I can dig a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, so I'll just go grab my tinfoil hat and await your reply.

Hey, I'm curious, did "they" all sit in cushy chairs, in a dimly lit board room, drinking cognac and smoking cigars in double-breasted pinstripe suits, nefariously plotting and scheming how to manipulate society into a frenzy of hate? Were they part of a secret elite association of the super rich and influential, like Bilderberger Group or something?

Then you finish with, what to me sounds like a feminist rant? Women not appreciating the injustices of the world, and the patriarchy, men using bogus terms blah blah blah... and here's where I get really confused: at the start you made it sound like white men were the victims; the "individuals/entities" have been manipulating the poor helpless white men who, so cowardly afraid of losing their ability to discriminate and oppress, lash out like stupid helpless puppets, precisely as their evil overseers planned for them to do. So, why then are women so angry with them? Maybe the women are unable to realize that men are just stupid beasts, slaves to their own inherent nature to conquer, oppress and destroy, foolishly manipulated by the mysterious "they"? Or maybe, out of exasperation from having endured man's oppressive and brutish behavior for so long, perhaps they're simply out of fucks to give.

Perhaps you're a troll or something? Your post, when one breaks it down, really doesn't make any sense. You're just all over the place, and for even more irony, your first words are "to be clear." I'm just trying to figure out, if you were real, either you have to be a very angry woman or a man with tremendous self - loathing and shame. Jeez I hope you're a troll that would be hilarious

 

[marsvolta]

Are you for real? You're saying, umm, boogeyman terms, created by mysterious "individuals/entities", in a conscious & concerted effort to instill fear and hatred in, uh, white males, with a desired result of exactly what, I ask? Do tell, just who are these "individuals/entities," and whomever you say they are, please provide some evidence as to a connection between this person/people and their campaign to instill mindlessness & hate.

I can dig a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, so I'll just go grab my tinfoil hat and await your reply.

Hey, I'm curious, did "they" all sit in cushy chairs, in a dimly lit board room, drinking cognac and smoking cigars in double-breasted pinstripe suits, nefariously plotting and scheming how to manipulate society into a frenzy of hate? Were they part of a secret elite association of the super rich and influential, like Bilderberger Group or something?

Then you finish with, what to me sounds like a feminist rant? Women not appreciating the injustices of the world, and the patriarchy, men using bogus terms blah blah blah... and here's where I get really confused: at the start you made it sound like white men were the victims; the "individuals/entities" have been manipulating the poor helpless white men who, so cowardly afraid of losing their ability to discriminate and oppress, lash out like stupid helpless puppets, precisely as their evil overseers planned for them to do. So, why then are women so angry with them? Maybe the women are unable to realize that men are just stupid beasts, slaves to their own inherent nature to conquer, oppress and destroy, foolishly manipulated by the mysterious "they"? Or maybe, out of exasperation from having endured man's oppressive and brutish behavior for so long, perhaps they're simply out of fucks to give.

Perhaps you're a troll or something? Your post, when one breaks it down, really doesn't make any sense. You're just all over the place, and for even more irony, your first words are "to be clear." I'm just trying to figure out, if you were real, either you have to be a very angry woman or a man with tremendous self - loathing and shame. Jeez I hope you're a troll that would be hilarious

um.. yep! good to see you understood exactly what was being said.

want to see those "evil entities"? watch fox news or msnbc. everyone on those channels are there for one purpose... to scare the shit out of people and make them vote for party A or B. Trump gets up and uses all that lingo to scare the shit out of people... "THEY want to take our history", "it was just LOCKER ROOM talk", "IMMIGRANTS are coming to kill you" etc etc.. translates to "vote for me". "US vs THEM" is the most powerful political tool available. its US vs "liberals", US vs "right wing nut jobs". US vs "feminists".

all of that is really off topic though... the point is, don't be a pawn in the CULTURE WAR.

feminist rant? more words designed to denigrate women. i'm going to spell out the basis of all entire feminist thought and you tell me what part of it is a "rant".... feminism is the movement to ensure that women have a proper say in the world and future that they live in. now, what part of that is a "rant"?

 

[Cock Throppled]

to be clear... the term "politically correct" is a boogeyman term coined by the same individuals/entities that create terms like "liberal", "socialist", "terrorist", "left-wing", "right-wing" etc etc... created on all sides of the political spectrum they are intended as a call to arms for mindlessness and hatred.

specifically, "politically correct" is meant to create fear in predominantly white men because they are loosing power.... the power to discriminate on sex, religion and race... the power to just generally be assholes.

encouragingly, these terms are only effective on a fraction of our society. there are real issues and real proposed solutions to those issues that resist being clumped up into some frame-less term. women don't appreciate all the shit they have had to deal with for centuries just trying to put food in their mouths. they don't appreciate men using bogus terms to describe their desire to continue with the status quo.

Congratulations. You've successfully mentioned just about every meaningless talking point out there.

Until you can come up with reasons why only white men are racist, sexist, discriminatory, powerful, mindless, and afraid of losing "power", then you're just parroting rhetoric.

And while you're at it, what terms do you propose in place of liberal, socialist, terrorist, left-wing, right-wing, etc etc.

And where do you see white men losing power?

 

[ddcanz]

There is a time and place for most things.
Common sense should dictate the necessary decorum.
For example, this Board will mostly accept some pretty obnoxious and ignorant commentary, viewpoints, colourful language etc. PC is given some real latitude.
A good example was the Sick Joke Thread that ultimately deteriorated due to some poorly chosen DH "jokes".
Wrong time and DEFINATELY wrong place.
These jokes were posted without malicious or insulting intent.
The OP was guilty of extremely poor judgement.
And in a different, more private forum they would probably be received in the manner intended.
Live, learn and move on.
There is a time and place for most things.
Sexual harassment in the office environment?
Easy to say that you are merely commenting on a woman's attire or appearance.
Was the comment made to the woman when she was wearing a designer- yet completely concealing- business suit?
Or when she was wearing something much more provocative?
Tits fully presented or strapped down and flat?
Ankle length dress or mid-thigh skirt?
Loafers or CFM pumps?
Form fitting or frumpy?
Striking features or a plain Jane?
There is a huge difference between a woman dressing to look and feel good and a woman wanting subtle or even blatant innuendos from men in her workplace.
Just sit back and appreciate the effort the ladies make. Fantasize. Spank your squirrel later. See your favourite SP for some role-play. Hell, how about just going home and fucking your wife until she tells you that SHE'S had enough? Whatever.
But keep the comments and questionable actions to yourself.
There is a time and place for most things.

 

[marsvolta]

Congratulations. You've successfully mentioned just about every meaningless talking point out there.

Until you can come up with reasons why only white men are racist, sexist, discriminatory, powerful, mindless, and afraid of losing "power", then you're just parroting rhetoric.

And while you're at it, what terms do you propose in place of liberal, socialist, terrorist, left-wing, right-wing, etc etc.

And where do you see white men losing power?

hmm... so, you're not in agreement that north american culture is predominately dominated by white male culture? and that, due to demographics those dynamics are shifting? i'm not worried about it... but there appear to be a bunch of tiki torch carrying types that are.

but again, thats probably a better discussed in another thread.

the topic of this thread is women changing the dynamic in a society dominated by male culture (i've excluded the "white" part here as that just enrages the anti-immigrant culture war pawns). people started stating that it was all due to "political correctness" and i'm asking. is there something wrong with women not wanting to be cat called on the street? groped in the office? not considered for a promotion because shes a woman?

 

[LM987]

Years ago I had a client who always had gorgeous receptionists. One year he did tell me when he needed to hire office help, he would call local modelling agencies. 1 - Beautiful 2- Usually needed work.
His comment was, I can train a beautify girl to work here, but I can make an ugly one beautiful. Totally not PC, but that was the attitude years ago.


One of my bosses a long time ago also told me he hired ugly women so he wouldn't be tempted.

 

[badbadboy]

Years ago I had a client who always had gorgeous receptionists. One year he did tell me when he needed to hire office help, he would call local modelling agencies. 1 - Beautiful 2- Usually needed work.
His comment was, I can train a beautify girl to work here, but I can make an ugly one beautiful. Totally not PC, but that was the attitude years ago.


One of my bosses a long time ago also told me he hired ugly women so he wouldn't be tempted.

The conferences and trade shows I attend still usually have a few vendors who will always have a hot young lady standing at the entrance to their booth. Typically wearing a short skirt and a blouse yielding a fabulous view. Their job is simple to attract engineers etc to visit the booth to talk with the sales team.

 

[golferjohn]

There is a time and place for most things.
Sexual harassment in the office environment?
Easy to say that you are merely commenting on a woman's attire or appearance.
.

agreed and this premise would work within a frame of logic and reason...unfortunately that isn't the 'playground' in which we frolic. Any comment, down to the most innocent/innocuous, can be weaponize against you. All the recipient needs to say is the feeling it evoked was harassing. Heck you could have made the exact same comment in the exact same tone/inflection 50 times before without incident...then bam!

the stakes are too high and all the protections are set-up against you (ask yourself why every HR department is predominantly female...like your 1st grade teacher making sure you behave) so best never to tread on any slope. (it's too bad cuz those Christmas Parties used to be a blast, lol)

 

[clu]

agreed and this premise would work within a frame of logic and reason...unfortunately that isn't the 'playground' in which we frolic. Any comment, down to the most innocent/innocuous, can be weaponize against you. All the recipient needs to say is the feeling it evoked was harassing. Heck you could have made the exact same comment in the exact same tone/inflection 50 times before without incident...then bam!

Anyone aware of any common examples of this outside of paranoid fantasies? I mean I'm sure an anecdote or two exists, but I can find anecdotes about people being struck by lightning too. Doesn't mean it's common nor a realistic fear.

 

[NEbaD]

um.. yep! good to see you understood exactly what was being said.

want to see those "evil entities"? watch fox news or msnbc. everyone on those channels are there for one purpose... to scare the shit out of people and make them vote for party A or B. Trump gets up and uses all that lingo to scare the shit out of people... "THEY want to take our history", "it was just LOCKER ROOM talk", "IMMIGRANTS are coming to kill you" etc etc.. translates to "vote for me". "US vs THEM" is the most powerful political tool available. its US vs "liberals", US vs "right wing nut jobs". US vs "feminists".

all of that is really off topic though... the point is, don't be a pawn in the CULTURE WAR.

feminist rant? more words designed to denigrate women. i'm going to spell out the basis of all entire feminist thought and you tell me what part of it is a "rant".... feminism is the movement to ensure that women have a proper say in the world and future that they live in. now, what part of that is a "rant"?

Aww, you're for real, that's too bad for you.

I don't concern myself with Fox News or MSNBC; if that's what you think is your "they," you should be talking to someone else; if that's your "culture war," you're really digging the dregs, but that's none of my business. All the same, you have failed to address the fact that you painted white men in particular as hapless idiots, and now again pawns, then proceeded to paint on another coat with these same pawns as the merciless oppressor. This is where your whole statement digresses into nonsense, just a bunch of talking points and buzzwords as another person put it. There's no unified message. It seems to me as though perhaps the American network television has shortened your attention span to the point where you are unable to string together a few linear paragraphs.

What I do concern myself with are things like suicide rates, life expectancy, workplace deaths, disproportionate figures in terms of victims of violence & homicide, genital mutilation, and gender statistics relating to education. When I consider issues such as those, the "basis of all entire feminist thought", as you put it, is a rant. I think we do, however, agree on one thing: the world would be a better place if we could ensure women had a proper say in the world and future we all live in, the only difference being that IMO feminism is exactly the opposite of what is needed in terms of facility for that taking place.

If you'd like to get into it further, please explain to me how you think women in today's society are denigrated, or oppressed, or whatever? I'd be more than happy to take you outside the world of American network television, if you wish.

 

[Quarter Mile'r]

um.. yep! good to see you understood exactly what was being said.

want to see those "evil entities"? watch fox news or msnbc. everyone on those channels are there for one purpose... to scare the shit out of people and make them vote for party A or B. Trump gets up and uses all that lingo to scare the shit out of people... "THEY want to take our history", "it was just LOCKER ROOM talk", "IMMIGRANTS are coming to kill you" etc etc.. translates to "vote for me". "US vs THEM" is the most powerful political tool available. its US vs "liberals", US vs "right wing nut jobs". US vs "feminists".

all of that is really off topic though... the point is, don't be a pawn in the CULTURE WAR.

You're right, Trump is a boogeyman, but also a right wing nut job to boot.
And you're also right about it scaring the crap outta me. Hitler used the same tactics to gain power.
Although I haven't seen Trump forcibly throw any communists out of office yet. :lol:





.......................QM'r

 

[ddcanz]

please explain to me how you think women in today's society are denigrated, or oppressed, or whatever?

You're just fucking with him, right?
Otherwise you're blind and just being argumentative towards the structure and semantics of marsvolta's commentary, which seems clear to most.
But hey, enjoy yourself. Some of your points related to femimism are well said also.
Carry on, kid.

 

[NEbaD]

You're just fucking with him, right?
Otherwise you're blind and just being argumentative towards the structure and semantics of marsvolta's commentary, which seems clear to most.

Nope, not just fucking with him, but neither am I blind. I'm genuinely interested in, from marsvolta's perspective, what feminist issues are, so we can discuss the issue on his level (at least to start). If I just opened up conversation on feminist issues from my perspective, I am not confident that marsvolta and I would be on the same page. Lots of people watch MSNBC and Fox News, fewer people follow Christina Hoff Sommers (here's a link to her amazing video blog, "The Factual Feminist") or Dr. Janice Fiamengo, who I don't believe calls herself a feminist any longer, but did for many years and is still a prominent figure (and great Canadian!) with respect to gender related issues. So, basically, I'm just trying to find common ground as a starting point, and I think it's likely easier for me to relate to him than the other way around. That's why I chose the words "tell me what you think"

And ya, I am arguing the structure and semantics of his writing, as well. He needs to improve if he hopes to engage in effective discourse, as I'm sure you've noticed.

 

[Jemue]

But I think I am going think twice now.

MGTOW is the only real way to be safe now.

could be (mis)interpreted as sexual harassment.

It's not even if it "could be" .... it's far more a case of "how can this be used against me".

The consequences could be disastrous. But we are talking about something different and that is a co-worker esp a female one accusing you of sexual harassment or making sexual advances.

And .... it only has to be an accusation. Vengeance is addictive.

I am not saying that the women in news are doing it for publicity. But I am sure there is a very small percentage of women who could ride this wave and try to make a quick buck by accusing a boss of harassment.

A lot are.

Do you think it will change the way you, especially men, will start to act around women? Are you being extra wary about the way you interact socially, orally (pardon the pun) or physically around your coworkers?

I think - and truly hope - that women are more and more isolated from men, for men's protection.

First rule is never be alone in a room with one at work, always have a witness who you might be able to trust, or always in public. Otherwise you are at serious risk.

 

[maniacalone]

Unfortunately, yes. The stakes are too high to even dare. Remember, it's not the words but how the words made someone feel...if they're particularly sensitive that day then you've committed harassment.
Better to not engage than be potentially ruined

I find it humorous how no one can recognize some male responsibility in any of these scenarios. Women take a compliment wrong. Women take a joke wrong. Here's a different perspective. Perhaps privileged and entitled males in positions of power are simply guilty of misconduct and are simply not satisfied with the economic and political advantages they have in life. They now (or always have) must take their privilege and entitlement expectations to include inappropriate and predatory advances on women they work with as an additional benefit owed.