Federal election result: it just doesn't make any sense!

[Tugela]

I call it rounding error. With 338 seats I'm really not that worried about an Atlantic province having an extra seat. This is on par with worrying about the mercury in vaccines when there's more mercury in tuna.

Seriously when this is the biggest problem left with our democracy we'll be in a pretty good place. When 39% of the people elected the power that rules our country (be it Conservative before or Liberal now) it seems an odd priority to worry about a source of imbalance that accounts for a 1.8% error in per capita representation.

The only true democracy by this argument is that we have 35,000,000 seats in Parliment.

Technically, we elect a representative from our local community, and they band together to form a government. There is nothing wrong with that system and it has certain advantages over a proportional representation system, since you have a real person from your riding who you can petition when there is a local issue. You don't get that with proportional representation, instead you have a list of people none of who have any special interest in listening to local concerns.

It does not really matter if a few ridings are unusually large or small, what matters is that each community sends a representative to parliament.

 

[HankQuinlan]

Technically, we elect a representative from our local community, and they band together to form a government. There is nothing wrong with that system and it has certain advantages over a proportional representation system, since you have a real person from your riding who you can petition when there is a local issue. You don't get that with proportional representation, instead you have a list of people none of who have any special interest in listening to local concerns.

It does not really matter if a few ridings are unusually large or small, what matters is that each community sends a representative to parliament.

This WOULD be the result if not for the party system. We have just spent ten years with drones voting in lockstep according to how they are told to vote by their party whip. They did not vote according to the wishes of the majority in their riding.

And the first past-the-post system results in people who do NOT represent their community being elected. We have just come out of a parliament where numerous ridings were represented by a "winner" who were voted against by the majority in their riding.

A proportionate vote can be devised where people still represent their ridings -- a run-off vote for example; or where the second-choice is counted and a formula developed to count which of the candidates has the most support. Both of these systems are in use in various elections throughout the world.

 

[myselftheother]

Didn't vote? You're just trolling now.

Yup. He said he didn't vote, which makes his opinions on this matter void. If you don't participate, you don't get a say.

 

[mercyshooter]

Yup. He said he didn't vote, which makes his opinions on this matter void. If you don't participate, you don't get a say.

I would say that he would have already critically analyzed the election system and concluded that the result won't get you one step closer to democracy. so, he called it bullshit and decided not to vote.

proportional representation will be a better system towards closer to democracy. first-past-the-post does not. that comes up by reading many analytic sources.

 

[westwoody]

what matters is that each community sends a representative to parliament.

This fucking infuriates me.

A couple elected in Winnipeg do not live in the ridings they were elected to represent. Robert Falcon Oullette is one example:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/at-home-with-robert-falcon-ouellette-and-his-family-1.2798642

I think this is fraud, pure and simple. A community sends a representative to Parliament. He is not a member of that community. The fact is that Winnipeg Centre has NO representative in Parliament and St Vital has TWO.
It happens in all parties. How could Olivia Chow and Jack Layton both be MP's? Did either of them live in their ridings?

 

[PierreCoeur]

This fucking infuriates me.

A couple elected in Winnipeg do not live in the ridings they were elected to represent. Robert Falcon Oullette is one example:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/at-home-with-robert-falcon-ouellette-and-his-family-1.2798642

I think this is fraud, pure and simple. A community sends a representative to Parliament. He is not a member of that community. The fact is that Winnipeg Centre has NO representative in Parliament and St Vital has TWO.
It happens in all parties. How could Olivia Chow and Jack Layton both be MP's? Did either of them live in their ridings?

http://www.inthehills.ca/2015/09/de...ndidates-into-the-safest-seat-in-the-country/

CONSERVATIVES DID THIS ALL THE TIME

 

[clu]

I would say that he would have already critically analyzed the election system and concluded that the result won't get you one step closer to democracy. so, he called it bullshit and decided not to vote.

proportional representation will be a better system towards closer to democracy. first-past-the-post does not. that comes up by reading many analytic sources.

Then wouldn't the logical thing to do be to cast a vote that was most likely to result in first-past-the-post being replaced with something better (no matter how remote the chance of success) rather than just shrugging and saying "oh well, there's nothing I can do"?

 

[Tugela]

This fucking infuriates me.

A couple elected in Winnipeg do not live in the ridings they were elected to represent. Robert Falcon Oullette is one example:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/at-home-with-robert-falcon-ouellette-and-his-family-1.2798642

I think this is fraud, pure and simple. A community sends a representative to Parliament. He is not a member of that community. The fact is that Winnipeg Centre has NO representative in Parliament and St Vital has TWO.
It happens in all parties. How could Olivia Chow and Jack Layton both be MP's? Did either of them live in their ridings?

Who says they have to live in the Riding to represent it? And in any case, that guy apparently lives in Winnipeg, so why can't he represent a riding there?

The point is that SOMEONE is directly responsible to the members of the community. With a proportional representation system no one is responsible, other than the party itself. You don't have any one person representing you.

 

[mercyshooter]

Then wouldn't the logical thing to do be to cast a vote that was most likely to result in first-past-the-post being replaced with something better (no matter how remote the chance of success) rather than just shrugging and saying "oh well, there's nothing I can do"?

so, if you were him, what will you vote?

 

[westwoody]

Pierrecouer: yes as I said, every party does it. It is not a partisan issue.
I am on an American board. When one side is criticised the response is almost always "they do it too". As if that is a defence. Wrong is wrong whether someone else is doing it too.

Tugela: the demographics of the ridings are totally different. He lives in suburbia and worked at a university, now he is representing a desperately poor and crime ridden area nothing like where he lives. Think someone from kitsilano representing the Downtown Eastside.
The Liberals did the same thing in my riding. A small C riding full of cops, military, vets, churchgoers, and retirees. They parachuted in a flamboyantly gay, confrontational, anti-police idiot who had nothing in common with the residents. That is how we got stuck with a Tory for ten years.

 

[clu]

so, if you were him, what will you vote?

It's a moot point now, but the NDP, Liberals and Green all had the replacement of first-past-the-post in their platform. Which of those you chose would've depended on details like "do you trust them to follow through?", "do you think a vote for them, even if not elected, be perceived as discontent with the FPTP system, encouraging others to adopt it in their own platform in the future to capture that voter base?", etc.

 

[Tugela]

Pierrecouer: yes as I said, every party does it. It is not a partisan issue.
I am on an American board. When one side is criticised the response is almost always "they do it too". As if that is a defence. Wrong is wrong whether someone else is doing it too.

Tugela: the demographics of the ridings are totally different. He lives in suburbia and worked at a university, now he is representing a desperately poor and crime ridden area nothing like where he lives. Think someone from kitsilano representing the Downtown Eastside.
The Liberals did the same thing in my riding. A small C riding full of cops, military, vets, churchgoers, and retirees. They parachuted in a flamboyantly gay, confrontational, anti-police idiot who had nothing in common with the residents. That is how we got stuck with a Tory for ten years.

So you think a homeless person or an addict should be the candidate?

There is no reason why someone who lives in Kits can't represent Vancouver-Mount Pleasant (the riding the DTES is in). Jenny Kwan worked as a legal advocate there prior to getting involved in politics, but I doubt that she actually lives there.

Irrespective, the constituents still voted for this guy. And he did live in the city, so it isn't like he knew nothing about the riding. Plus, you forget, a candidate isn't just appointed, they have to win the nomination from the local party membership. They obviously knew who he was and believed that he spoke for them. Maybe not for the other parties supporters, who weren't going to vote for him (or whoever else got the nomination) no matter who he was.

 

[hornygandalf]

The point is that SOMEONE is directly responsible to the members of the community. With a proportional representation system no one is responsible, other than the party itself. You don't have any one person representing you.

Not necessarily correct. Depends on the system. Take a look at how New Zealand does it. There are directly elected MPs representing specific ridings. The proportionality comes from the 'top up' off the party lists.

 

[PAUSEDMENO]

lets say that the population is 100.
16 vote conservative,
24 vote green
25 vote liberal
35 don't vote.

Who goes to Ottawa??, That's democracy. Hey , don't worry, the people who really are running the country, never changes.

 

[sybian]

Ok ,so this is dead serious...I'm not joking around here.
I've been in the mountains, away from Radio ,T.V.....And have not had any human contact...Including women....Who the hell won the election?

 

[hankmoody]

Ok ,so this is dead serious...I'm not joking around here.
I've been in the mountains, away from Radio ,T.V.....And have not had any human contact...Including women....Who the hell won the election?

Liberals
JT says 25 000 refugee's here by year end. How many do you have room for?

 

[sybian]

No really!....Who won?

 

[hankmoody]

No really!....Who won?

LOL. I'm serious man. Our country is going to be lead by a teacher who hasn't even operated a small business!
Better head back in the bush. Come out in about 4 years.

 

[sybian]

I was laughing, until I Googled it...Why did I just break out in a financial cold sweat?

 

[wilde]

I take the teacher over your mailroom clerk any dayound: